Alan Rough MBE – Scottish Former Professional Footballer & Football Broadcaster (#23)

Episode 23 of the Money Made Human podcast features Alan Rough MBE, Scottish former professional footballer and football broadcaster.

Widely regarded as one of Scotland’s most recognisable goalkeepers, Alan enjoyed an outstanding playing career that saw him represent his country on the international stage and become a firm favourite with football supporters across Scotland. Best known for his time at Partick Thistle, he remains one of the club’s most celebrated players and a respected voice within the game today.

In this episode, host Gayle Lloyd speaks with Alan about his journey into football, the influence of his parents, and the experiences that shaped a career spanning some of the most memorable moments in Scottish football. He reflects on representing Scotland at three World Cups, including his memories of the 1978 tournament in Argentina, and shares his thoughts on how the game has evolved over the decades.

Key topics in this episode include:

• Alan’s journey into football and goalkeeping
• The influence of his parents and early life experiences
• How football has changed over the years
• The importance of saving and planning for the future as a professional footballer
• His current role with PLZ Soccer and continued involvement in the game
• The importance of staying active and maintaining good health

Join us for an entertaining and insightful conversation with one of Scottish football’s most recognisable figures, reflecting on a remarkable career and the lessons learned along the way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Money Made Commons podcast. It celebrates at its heart the work of credit unions and their vital role in enriching our lives and communities. Brought to you by first class credit unions. Each episode features insightful discussions revealing the meaningful impact that can be made through economic collaboration. Mostly it's a collection of compassionate conversations about navigating life and the individual journeys we take. Alan, what a pleasure to meet you today and have you on our podcast. You're you're really an icon of Scottish football.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Well, I think it's because I've been a lot a long, a long time. I started playing when I was 16 and uh and obviously coming through all the all the teams and everything. I I was fortunate enough to get 20 good years playing. A lot of footballers don't get that long, but I think when you're a goalkeeper, you try and stay away from injuries, so you seem to last longer.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

And you look you do look so well and healthy, and uh no what a privilege for us to have you today. Have so many questions.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Want to talk to you about obviously it's coming up for the World Cup, and you were a part of I think two World Cups, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

I played in two World Cups, uh but I was actually a P I was at three. I went to Mexico in '86 as well. I never played in Mexico, but I've I've actually taken part in three World Cups.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Amazing. I want to talk to you about your journey to football. We're really lucky to be business partners with the Professional Footballers Association in Scotland, and I want to talk to you a bit about money in football and money and footballers and perceptions we might have, and uh just talk to you about how you how you spend your time now around football, if that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Yeah, fire away.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

So a key thing from our concept of money made human is to go back to the past and talk about where we've come from. Are you local to Glasgow?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Yeah, I was I was brought up in uh well, I was born on the Gorbles. Uh I was brought up in Mary Hill, uh, which is only a stone's throw from Partick Thistle, which was quite ironic. Uh stayed in Doncaster Street and uh grew up there, you know, obviously supporting Partick Thistle. I used to go up to Partick Thistle when I was 10 and skip in at half time and collect the ginger bottles and all that still, the usual stuff. And uh, you know, my my upkeeping was was in that area, and then I I obviously moved to to Knightswood. It was the old style uh we're going to decant you to the country. So we ended up in Knightswood, so I was there for a wee while, but no, quite football would have been a big, big part of my life.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

And local to the area. And what about who brought you up, Alan? Was it dad?

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yeah, mum and dad. They say they we we started off in the Gorbles, and then we moved to Mary Hill, I think, when I was five or something like that. And I remember my dad being very active away back then, you know. It was just uh it was just a tenement flat we stayed in, you know. I I only remember two rooms. I I do remember getting uh bath at night in the sink. I remember that, so it wasn't a luxury accommodation.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

But I do remember my dad working very, very hard, you know, doing it.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

What did he do?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

He he actually was uh a miner to start off with, and then obviously moved out of the mining and then he became a security guard for a long, long time. But my my memory of him was he was always doing other jobs to make life a lot, you know. He would be, you know, he'd work in the picture hall or he'd work here or he'd he'd be doing lots of other things. So yeah, they were well looked after as kids.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Uh-huh. And was was he a Partick Thistle fan?

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Uh he became a Partick Thistle fan obviously when I started playing for Partick Thistle, and they I don't think he missed a game. You know, he used to come to every game, whether it was home or away, he'd be there. I'd always leave tickets for him. Uh, and then obviously when I went on to play for Scotland, he came to every Scotland game. Oh, I love that. And uh lots of tickets as well. Quite a good story. It was one time with Scotland where we're playing Holland at Hamden, and the old Hamden, there was a wee window as you went in, and you left your complimentary tickets at the door for whoever you were inviting. Sure. And I left my two tickets for my dad, and uh I was in the dressing room getting changed for the game, and there was a chap at the door. Jock Steen was the manager, and there was a chap at the door to say, Your dad can't find his tickets. So it was nothing much I could do about it because I was getting ready for the game, and Jock Steen said to the boy, Well, tell him they look a wee bit harder. And then about ten minutes later, there was another chap at the door, and here it was my dad. He'd actually come right into the dressing room, and Jock Steen said to him, Look, will you go and get your daddy's tickets? No, he only told me you'd go and get him so because he was obviously knew my dad couldn't get in without the tickets, so no, he my dad would walk in anywhere. And I loved that. I'm sure everybody's dad, anywhere he went, anywhere we used to go, we used to go on holiday to like Girvin or Solcoats or something like that. He was one of these guys he'd be walking down the road and everybody knew him. I know you know you get how you doing, Bob, how you doing, how you doing? It was baffling though how how many people they actually knew.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

I loved that. And so, how did you get into football as a young boy?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Oh, just football at school. You know, I started off at school, and because I was a goalkeeper, it's the old goalkeeping story. When you when you come out at playtime, uh, or everybody wants to play football, and the two best players get picking the team. So you have a big lineup of every and everybody knows the good players, so the captains pick the best players, and the guy at the end, who's absolutely hopeless, always gets thrown in goals, and that's how I started. Is it? I couldn't play outfield, I was just hopeless. And I used to get thrown in the goals, and it was a protest early on, uh huh. But then I just got used to it.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

And did you what what happened in terms of becoming a goalkeeper? Did you get into it? Did it become something you liked?

SPEAKER_02 6:37

No, it was just for school, and then I got into it, you know, I liked it, and then I I got picked for the school team, and then obviously went to the BB, and I played for the BB team, and then just carried on, you know, moving up the ranks and playing as much football because I mean modern day kids don't realise that the football was everything. You would you would play football on the street till till it got dark. You would play football and use anything, a door as a goal, or any any two j jackets thrown down, you would just play football all the time. That doesn't happen now. The story I always tell a lot of the the the the younger kids now is we'd uh we'd we'd pitches over at uh Govan, then they were called the 50 pitches, which means there was 50 pitches. And these 50 pitches were full every morning on a Saturday and every night. There is only two pitches there now. And that just shows you that kids are not playing as much football as what we did, you know, and that's why so many aren't coming through as quick as what they used to be, you know, and and a lot of the the good players in my era all went down to England, they all had played the big top English teams. English teams always needed a Scots player in their team, and it doesn't happen as much now as what it did then.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

And what happened while you were getting into football? Was your mum and dad looking at you going, What are you going to do for a job, Alan? What were they trying to steer you to?

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yeah, at school, yeah, they were always saying uh you have to obviously get some kind of uh O level or higher level. Unfortunately, I wasn't bright enough to get that level. I I was I was woodwork and metal work, you know, that was my skills. And uh and I don't I knew I wasn't going to be successful at school because the class I had, you know, the class that I was in, they sat me at a desk and with big windows, they sat me looking at the football pitches. So all I did all day was we stayed at the football. I always think about when's PE. And uh way back then, PE was I had maybe 12, 12 PE classes a week, which was great. You just took your football boots with you, and you knew you were getting PE in the morning or P in the afternoon. But as the years went on, that obviously got curtailed to about four or five or something like that. And I left school, I think I left school in third year, uh, and that's when we moved to Mary Hall when I went to Gary York school. Never quite made North Kelvin side, you know. I was thrown into Gary York, but football for me was everything. I'd I'd made up my mind that is that what you wanted to be, but obviously, as you said, my dad there, you know, you have to have a trade, everybody has to have a trade. So I went as an electrician, uh I was an apprentice electrician for Scots, uh and I did all the multi-story flats and that, but I I was the only I was the only apprentice that never worked overtime because I always wanted to go to training and I would leave and I would say, you know, I've got something else on or something like that. So I was fortunate enough to I was fifteen, sixteen uh to really get into the under 16 teams and probably party thistle and you know it was just a progression from there.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

And was there a moment when your your dad realized actually you've got a chance of doing this at a high level?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yeah, well I think you have to take I got I'm I think I did two years as an apprentice electrician and then I went full time with with thistle when I was 17. Uh so it was be all a lendo, you know. I definitely didn't want to be an electrician, you know. I wanted to be a football player, and and fortunately enough when I I never looked back after that, I never had a trade to tell you the truth. I mean, I I don't even think my family asked me to change a bulb or a or a plug because they're not taking the chance that I blow the place up.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

So can you remember, was there a moment where you came home to your mum and dad and said, I'm going to sign for a party at Thistle? And was there pride in that for them?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah, I mean that that happened in mysterious circumstances because uh as I said, I was only I think I was only 16 at that time, and I played in the afternoon with a local youth team, and the manager of that youth team ran a man's team. And this Saturday, their goalkeeper, for whatever reason, couldn't he play? And the boy asked my dad, Would you mind if Alan played for the man's team? Now you're talking 21, 22 year olds. So I played that day, and uh I was down at Battle of Curl at Alley's Land, and I think we won and I must have had a good game. And this this guy came up to my dad and said, Look, I'm Jimmy Dickey, and I'm a scout for Particular, and we'd like your son to come up and have a trial uh on Tuesday night. So my dad was at front of it. Once my dad got a hold of that, that was gonna be a football player, then he was right behind me. So that's how it started. Very lucky because that that scout could have been at another game. It just happened that day. Was it that game that I played in?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

The chance of that happening.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. It's one of these moments that swinging doors, you know, that he could have the game that he went to watch was cancelled, and that game was the nearest game to that park.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Does a lot of that happen now, scouts, just by chance seeing someone, or is it much more difficult now?

SPEAKER_02 11:53

I think it's much more difficult now because I said earlier there, I think a lot there's not as many kids playing now because and I don't know what when scouts still go to games, you know, and generally if you go to a game you there's somebody stands out more than than anybody else, you know, so you're taking a chance of taking them along because there's I mean there's kids now going to professional football teams at 12 years of age, and you hear of players, the young kids being at Celtic and Rangers so they were 12, and then they get to 18 and they don't make it. You know, that that's a that's a tough that's a tough one you've got you've got to deal with. But uh as I said, when we played, I mean we used to play on a Sunday, it'd be 20 a s and there'd be every just be a demand for themselves, yeah. It'd be incredible, you know. But somebody always you could always look at the teams and say, Well, he's got a chance. And fortunately for my area, the the Knightswood uh Drum Chapel area, there was quite a lot of players broke through.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

A lot of talent coming from there. And how did it progress to playing for Scotland?

SPEAKER_02 12:56

I just came through the ranks, you know. I I played uh after I got into the Thistle first team, I got picked for the Scotland under 18 team, and then the progression from the under-18 team was to the under 23 team. I played in the Scotland under 23 team and then progressed to the full squad, but that was in 76. So I mean it took a wee while to get there, but uh and and playing with Partic Thistle, which wasn't a big, big club, you know, wasn't he wasn't it seen to be a lot of players came for teams like Partic Thistle?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Well I was gonna ask that was that unusual to have a Scotland goalie from a smaller team?

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Yeah, it was at that particular time because uh before most of the goalkeepers had either played for Rangers or Celtic or somewhere then in England, and uh so yeah, well it was a big kick, you know, being picked for Partict Thyssen. And I always remember when we used to play like Scotland England games, uh, on the television would would come up, you know, the names of the players and who they played with.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

And and I used to have a giggle because it it would be Kenny Doughleish, Liverpool, Graeme Soonis, Liverpool, Alan Hansen, Liverpool, and Rangers and Celtic, and then at the top it would say Alan Ruff, Partick Thistle. The Mighty Jags. The mighty Jags that you know had had hit it, but no, it was great, and we were a great bunch of boys as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Just going back to your family for a second, would do you remember telling them you got a Scotland call-up? Was that important to them?

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah, yeah. My first Cotland Cup was against Switzerland at Hamden. Uh my dad was pleased as punch as I said. My dad used to go to the games with Gordon McQueen's dad, and uh when they were a sight, you know, they they were just typical supporters, and uh they'd be standing outside with their tartan tamis and their tartan scarves and everything. And they might love it, but it was embarrassing at the time, you know, when you saw them.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

When you're trying to be exactly that and they're outside, you know, just being supporters.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

And then what about your journey? Because we're coming up to World Cup season, your journey to playing in the World Cups. You were saying you were part of three World Cups, so that would have been in Argentina, Spain, Mexico. I'd like to talk to you about the Argentina one in particular. I'm a 70s baby. Now I was only I would only have been a toddler when the Argentina World Cup was going on. But I remember my mum and dad telling me the whole country got carried away. They thought we were gonna win. And I remember my mum saying to me these words, she said to me, Allie McLeod got us believing we were gonna win the World Cup. What was that like? Is that true? And what was it like to be a part of that?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Yeah, I think you've you've hit it exactly on the head. I think Alan McLeod was a great enthusiast, you know, he lifted the whole nation. He believed uh he got the nation believing that we could do particularly well. I think the players were a wee bit more realistic, you know, because it's a big asking over to South America, you know, and performing in the heat and playing and all that. So we knew we had a good team, but it was incredible, and it was funny enough you mentioned that there because the scenes are like 20 odd thousand being in the park before we left.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

This was in Glasgow.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

In Glasgow, this was just a night before we left, they all came to say Cheurio, and then leaving to Presswick Airport, all the streets were all lined and flags, and and uh it was absolutely incredible. If you and I actually, when I actually got to Presswick to go on the plane, and I mean my wife and my son were there, and I know we had a chance to say Cheurio to them because it was just kind of swept away. And it's just moving on then because somebody sent me a video the other day of this Scotland team leaving. Yeah, and there was like just 20 or 30 school kids with flags, and the team just walked off and walked on the plane and and and flew away.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Well, I was going to ask you about Argentina. Okay, so maybe we did get carried away. But was there fun and joy in that as well?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

No, there's no enjoyment. The the football itself, if you're winning, it's fantastic. If you're not winning, then it is horrendous. It's a horrible because you feel as if you've let everybody down, you've let the nation down, all these people that were there to see us, and particularly in the first game when we got beat by Peru. Uh I mean everybody was in a downer. It was a horrible, horrible time.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

But there was a famous game as part of that where we played Holland.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah, in the last game, yeah, but unfortunately it was too late.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

It was too late. But what happened at that game with Holland?

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Holland was just one of these games where we knew we'd we had to perform and we knew we knew what we had to get, and we had a really, really good side. The first two games we just didn't perform, which happens in football. There's lots of games where you're expected to win something and you don't, but the Holland game was justification of of how good we were because that team got to the final and we beat them quite comfortably.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

And then what about what was it like returning from Argentina after that immense send-off? Was it difficult? Not very good.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

I remember as a plane, as a plane was flying into the airport, I remember looking out the window, and there was about two or three hundred people in a tarmark. And I think Alan McLeod thought they were there to congratulate us and say, Well done, but it was the exact opposite. It was it was like a mob, it was a mob who had been let down and were really angry about what had happened in that, and it was a horrible experience.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

No, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah, it was terrible, absolutely terrible.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

How do you recover from that?

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Well, you're a footballer, you've got to take the highs and the lows, you've got to put it to the background, and there's other games coming up, and you've got to just just perform.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

And then you went to Spain in 1982, is that right? What was your memories of that one?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

That was better. I mean, Argentina wasn't very well organized. The accommodation we stayed in was poor, the transport was poor, the training was poor, the training surfaces were poor. Once we got to Spain, I think the SFA and everybody had learned for the mistakes. So Spain was better. We stayed in a lovely complex and Sota Grande. Jock Steen was a manager, he was very thorough in everything that we did, very well organised. Training was good, facilities were good, the food was good, obviously, because we were in Europe. So from that aspect, everything was good.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

You feel there was a better setup.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

You're much, much, much better set, more relaxed, you know, not so much, you know. Because I think you realise when you go away abroad, see places like South America, that there's reporters there, there's sports reporters and there's news reporters. Sports reporters report on the sport. News reporters are sent over there to get stories.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Scandal.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

So not not particularly scandal, but if you're if you're a reporter and you've been sent away over there and your editor saying, like, we want stories, you know, if you don't file back stories, then you're not going to be in a job. So it got a wee bit nasty in Argentina. That wasn't in the case in Spain. Spain, everybody was pushing in the right direction, and uh the only downside of that was we were drawn against Brazil, which was a bit of a bummer.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Which we have coming up in this World Cup.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Certainly have.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

What are you thinking for this World Cup coming up?

SPEAKER_02 20:17

How do you think we'll do well? This one, the Brazil that we played was unbelievable. That I don't in '82, I don't know how that would be. Would that have had Spelly in it? Or was he? No, no, he was in his 70s. He's a way back then. But they had good players. They had the Zico's, the Falcaz, Janinho, Zico, you know, they're just great players. They should have won the World Cup that year. So we were good. Jock Stein had us completely focused on winning your first game. Forget about the Brazil game. If you win it, fair enough. If you don't, don't worry about it. The last game will be the important one, and and unfortunately we got beaten goal difference. So that was a bit a downer in that one, but uh but we played particularly. But by this time, we we had players in our team who'd won a European Cup. You know, big, big, big, big players. So we knew we had a good side, we we just couldn't win that last game.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

And what what do you think for now for the team our school?

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Yeah, I mean I I think uh he he's he's got a good squad of players together. Uh there's no doubt about it. Our midfield is as good as it's ever been. Uh we haven't found that striker yet that's going to win as the games. Lauren Shankland, you know, is seems to be the striker just now. Goalkeeping's a wee bit worried. Uh Craig Gordon, I think, is the number one and should play in the games, but he hasn't had a lot of games under his belt this year. But I think he's professional enough to deal with it. He played at the weekend there. I think he'll play again in the next game and he'll and he'll start as our number one. But uh it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be difficult 'cause people don't realise that although the football's got a lot to do with it, the climate's got a lot to do with it as well. I mean, we're not used to playing in that kind of heat. And most of the obviously the African countries, the the South Americans will they used to play that and there's going to be water breaks, and I mean that's show you how how warm it's going to be.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

And w when you're watching football, do you have an eye on the goalie? Do you have a special view of that?

SPEAKER_02 22:17

No, not particularly. I like to see the goalkeepers doing well. I always like to see the goalkeeper being the star man.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

You know, and uh Craig Gordon has done that uh when he's played, and the others have as well. But you don't want your goalkeeper to be the star man because if the goalkeeper's the star man means they're getting going the other way, you want to be going that way, you want the striker to be the star man or the or the midfield player. So I think the boys are are are are going over there quite hopeful. I think we've got to win the first game. Winning your first game is always important, and then obviously the Moroccan game, they they got the final of the Africans' Cup, so they must be a good sign. Brazil don't seem to be the Brazil of old, you know. I think they finished fifth in a South American group. They have big name players, there's no doubt about that, but not as many as what they used to be. So let's hope that they're not as good as what they are.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

We'll get your predictions at the very end. But just just coming back to football and footballers, we we're the credit union, we I guess to describe that would be like a community bank. We serve most of the UK, and we're really fortunate to be able to serve the members of the Professional Footballers Association. But we're very keen to say to footballers, especially young footballers, save a little bit. Yeah, don't go for the 500 pound trainers or whatever it is, just save a little and save often. And there's also this perception that all footballers, no matter where you play your football, are wealthy, which is not necessarily the case. Starting out in terms of money and wealth, and looking after that?

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, I think you've hit it on the head, you know. Uh I say I was fortunate enough to get 20 years professional footballer, not a lot of money, but the modern day players are getting more money, the younger ones in particular. And you're right in what you're saying, you should save as much as you can because you never know what's around the corner, you never know whether you're going to get two years, three years, five years, or whatever. Not everybody's on 10 grand a week. Uh so I think later on in life, I think you've got to look forward to that. In my era, there was no pensions, you know. I think you should get really involved if your club's got a pension, you should really get into that, you know, and and look to the future. And I remember when I was 30, I was at Hibbs at the time, and I was at a wee training session, and John Collins, who went on to play for Celtic and a lot of big clubs, of course, and he was only about 17 and 18. I remember him saying to me when I was 30, he says, Well, what are you going to do when you finish? And I never thought I had never even thought that I was ever going to stop playing football. Never looked to the future, never banked anything, never looked to what I was going to do. So I think the younger players now, I'd like to think the clubs and the people like yourself are helping advise these kids, and they've got somebody at particular clubs, whether it's Rangers, Celtic Cubs, Aberdeen, somebody's advising them that you don't need, you know, to have a big flashy car. You don't need to have. I saw a story down in England. There was an Arsenal player, a young player. Yeah, I think he was about 18 or 19, and he hadn't even played for the first team. And they had to go around his house and take away a Maserati, a Lamborghini, and a Porsche. You know, and that just shows you the money that they're on, and nobody's advising them, nobody's giving them any knowledge of what's going to happen later in life. Because I said, I would say if you're lucky enough you start playing 17, if you get the 35, you know, that's only half your life. You've still got half of your life to go. And if you've if you've got nothing prepared, okay, you might have earned a lot of money, but there's not a lot of players just now earn a lot of money, so they're the ones who have to look after themselves.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

And unfortunately, we've seen stories in the press where footballers are kind of targeted as well for scams and you know, the kind of tax avoidance schemes and so on that makes them vulnerable in their own way.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah, it it's it it's who's advising you.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

An advisor, an advisor would say, Oh, there's a something happening in Dubai, you need to put money in there, or there's a uh housing thing here. There are some food football players who are actively buying property, but they're using their money uh and they're looking ahead. The property obviously is going to make them money, but it's for the players I know the ones that you're talking about who are not on that kind of money, they're the ones that have to be aware that there is a big future out there.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah, save save little, save often. That's our message to them. Now tell me, Alan, about you mentioned some of the players that you played with. Who stands out? Did did you have were you a fan as well as a colleague at any time?

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Uh no, once I got playing for Scotland, obviously got to play with Kenny Dougleish and Graeme Soonis and Danny McGrain and Sandy Jardin. Uh, they were all with big clubs at that time. But we're all pals, you know. I think things have moved on now. There's a lot of, I'm not having a goal foreign players, but there's a lot of foreign intake into clubs, which wasn't there when we were there. So I don't think the the unity is there the way we were, because when I was at Hibbs, the majority of the players were all from Edinburgh. So they all knew what it was like the history of the club and who had been there and everything. I think some of the clubs had lacked that a wee bit, not all of them. Uh, but uh I I uh when the Robertson went to Aberdeen, he said the first thing he noticed was there wasn't a unity in the dressing room. There wasn't a like a pals all fighting for each other, so he I think he's gonna change that.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

And was there a manager that you played for that you look back and go, he was amazing?

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Well, Jock Steen obviously jumps it, you know, uh later on in my career. I think Dave McParland, uh, with Patrick Thistle, who brought us all up as young boys and got us to the League Cup final, uh he will always be remembered. But I think Jock Steen for me sticks out a mile more than anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

As a as a Hamiltonian, can I say I'm grateful that you said that because Jock was brought up and had around burn bank in Hamilton?

SPEAKER_02 28:35

That's right, yeah. So it's amazing the amount of players who come from that area.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Oh, no, amazing. What about navigating life after football? After playing football? Is that tricky?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Well, I was very, very fortunate. Uh I finished playing when I was 40. And uh that's quite old. Well, I was a goalkeeper, so you're not picking up injuries and you're not out for for any length of time. And I was very fortunate that a friend of mine called Jay Crawford was the CEO of a radio station. And this radio station, we're just away, this was about 1990. Uh, we started doing a sports programme, like a phone in, and he asked me if I would like to have a bash of it. And fortunately, I did take a bash of it, and I've been doing it ever since. And I've been lucky that that avenue is there. I was there at when I was 40, but as I've moved on, I'm now with Peter with PLZ, and I'm just continuing what we were doing.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

And does that give you pleasure that you're still involved? You might not be playing, but you're still involved in the community.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yeah, I absolutely love it. You know, obviously, the first the real radio one was a football phone-in, which you could communicate with the supporters, and that was really hysterical because some of the callers you never know what's going to get. But that was funny for a time. But uh obviously with Peter now, we're out of grounds and we're interviewing football players, we're not doing the the the phone-in stuff, so it's still a continuation of enjoying yourself and doing something that you've done all your life.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

I love that, and actually, you I hope you don't mind me saying this, Alan. But you're you told us before we went on air you're in your 70s.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

But you look so well, so healthy. What's the secret to that?

SPEAKER_02 30:27

I think you've got to keep active, and I I think I think being on the radio and doing the shows, not not particularly the radio, but doing it and you're active, you're you're talking all the time and you're meeting people, and yeah, you're you're doing things like this or doing other things and and people still want you to do things. But I think being active and I think physical act, I mean I know a lot of people I I I hate walking, I hope I don't mind me saying that. I hate walking. Uh I play tennis and I play golf and I play bowls.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Do you do them well?

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Do you yeah, I would like to think so. Um in fact I I'd I'm I'm that well that in the bowls, uh for the people who play bowls. It's the bowls uh competition time just now. Okay, and uh unfortunately in one of the rounds I get drawn against my wife, and uh so I had to play her in one of the rounds, and I think I think she then found out how competitive I really am. And there was everybody was saying, You're gonna let her win, are you gonna let her win? I mean, no. So that's your competitive any you I mean my kids hate playing me anything, tent you're still table tennis, tiddlywinks, ludo, anything. Anything you know uh when you're brought up uh as a footballer, you want to win. You don't want to be a loser.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

What would your I I don't know if you still have your mum and dad?

SPEAKER_02 31:47

No, no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

What would they say about your life looking back at it?

SPEAKER_02 31:52

My dad would just be I mean he's I think he still is, you know. I think he watches all the Scotland games where he's tarting the army and he's he's scarfing all that on. But no, he he was right behind me from the start and pushing, pushing, I remember pushing quite hard actually, you know. I mean, uh he used to ask me where I'd be playing, and I'd tell him somewhere else. Because he I knew he was to be the daddy standing at the side of the park shouting and balling and everything. And but no, no, him. My mum, my mum wasn't in the football and side, she was obviously I keep saying away back then, she was looking after the family and looking after what we were eating, and just really mean she was looking at the house.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Yeah, she was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

And unfortunately, when my dad died, she was left herself, so I think we all became a bit closer. I don't know why, but we did. Uh, and then unfortunately she passed away.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

I'm sorry to hear that. Now we've got some final questions for you from our team, a quick fire question and answer round. So I've no idea what these entail. Uh I love this first one. What was your most memorable experience while playing for Scotland in the World Cups?

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Just being there, being good enough to be the number one and on the plane, you know, and uh enjoying every minute of it.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I love this question. Who was the trickiest striker to go up against as a goalkeeper back in the day?

SPEAKER_02 33:18

In Scotland it would have been Joe Harper, uh Aberdeen centre forward to always at the NACA if you didn't catch the ball properly, you'd be waiting to put it in the back of the head. Davy Cooper at Rangers.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Hamiltonian.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yes, I know love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

What's something people would be surprised to learn about you? Football?

SPEAKER_02 33:42

I don't know. I think that uh I don't know. Football wise, couldn't kick the ball on my right foot. So I'd be hopeless. I'd be hopeless at the back pass roll just now. I'd probably fall on my face if I didn't kick the ball on my right foot.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Your favourite team to ever play for, and why?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

I was young enough at 18 to win the League Cup, and uh that was the start of my career, so that'll always be number one in my memory.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

In one word, what does football mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Winning.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Love that. And uh this is an interesting question just about what you were talking about. How has sports broadcasting evolved since you've you've been involved in it?

SPEAKER_02 34:31

I think the worst thing in the law is the a way I keep I keep saying it way back. Uh when when I played, I would say up until 70s, up until the 90s, the from the news, the sports reporters and the players, there was a unity there. You could you could sit with a reporter and have a chat, or he could phone you, could phone you at the house, how you doing, Alan doing this we story, blah blah blah. I didn't happen anymore. There is no contact with the modern day player. It all goes through the go through PR. You cannot phone anybody up, you cannot speak to them without permission. I think that's a big miss now. I mean, I know why they do it, but uh that is a thing I feel is lacking now that there seems to be a divide between the players and the the reporters. There seems to be an anger of you know, if somebody writes a story about you, oh that was him that wrote that story.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

There's almost some suspicion there. Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

I don't think there's a unity there. I don't think there's a trust is the word trust, sure. I think the the the the the reporters that I used to be with, like Ian Archer and Hugh Taylor and these guys, you know, you you would quite happily speak to them because you knew they weren't going to shaft you. If they were phoning you about a story, the story would be okay. You know, but I think that happened. Because uh media has moved on now. I mean, everything you just have to look at the front of a newspaper and it's all something not particularly good.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yeah. I've got three last questions for you. One is last Saturday it was the Champions League final, Arsenal and uh Paris. Yeah, and it ended up in penalties. What's the pressure like for the goalkeeper in that moment, or is the pressure on the striker how does that what's the dynamic of that?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

First of all, the the striker's got a free hit at goal.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

He knows where he's putting it. He knows exactly he knows where he's putting it, the goalkeeper has to guess. Uh and used to be used to go a wee bit early, trying to guess. If you go a wee bit early and guess, you could get it, but now they've stopped that, you can't move. So everything's stacked towards the striker, but people don't realise the pressure the striker's on. He could be the greatest player in the world, but pressure is everything. Pressure in any moment in time is you have to deal with it, and it doesn't necessarily work all the time as it did with the Arsenal player who missed that. So he's got to live with that.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Will will he live with that?

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah, yeah, he's a professional football player. Uh he has to move on. Yeah, I was watching a documentary on the television uh last night with Gareth Southgate. Oh, yes, and uh a lot of the England failures were all penalty kicks. And there was a young boy who got thrown in, I think it was two years ago, boy, Saka.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

For an Arsenal as well.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

He was only 19 and he missed a penalty. But you're saying how do you react to that? He's still there the now. He's in the England team in the World Cup. So you have a mentality of you've got to be, you just got to put it aside and just believe in your ability.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

After that kind of game, does that make you wake up during the night and you just relive that?

SPEAKER_02 37:58

You just sleep, you feel as if you've let everybody down as an individual. If it was a team thing, you might be able to deal with a wee bit more, but as an individual, he'll have to have people run about him, his family, his pals, you know, and uh that's the only thing that can get you over it.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

What about the World Cup coming up? What's your prediction for Scotland? Will we get through the next phase into the next phase? Because we've never done it, and who will win the World Cup?

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Yeah, I think we will get through because uh the rules have changed now that the third best team in your group can possibly qualify, which makes it a lot easier to qualify, and that's why I'm saying if we win our first game, we'll get a great chance of even getting through in three points, believe it or not. Uh, and who'll win it, I think it'll be for the first time in a long time, you know, an African team or somebody from South America, but uh I always like Spain. I think Spain they watch the Barcelona's Real Madrid, so they've got the big players who perform at these big occasions.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

And will you be there watching it like your dad with addressed in Titan Army? You wouldn't have to be a lot of people. I might I'm there with Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Uh I I will be right behind the team.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

One last question. I I think it's been really inspirational to speak to you. Not not just not about the football as such, but your view of life and keeping healthy and keeping active and you look fab. Um, you need to tell your your wife that we give we give you that feedback. What would your best life advice be to anyone listening to this?

SPEAKER_02 39:42

I think you touched on it earlier, the financial side of it, being a football player. Uh look to the future, uh prepare yourself for the future, prepare yourself for not being uh a big star football team, a player, uh and and money is all, you know. I think pensions, I think when you get to 60 and you realise, you know, what you've got to live for in your last 20 years or 30 years of your life, I think it's very important that you are secure, particularly family as well, you know. But uh I I think the financial side it for me, having not made a lot of money out of the game, you know, is something and looking back on it, I should have been better prepared.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Or better advised.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Yeah, better advised.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Better advised. It's been such a pleasure to speak to you, Alan. I feel like I've met one of the icons in and around my childhood as well, and one of the Alan McLeod's um famous famous army of 1978. Everyone, um Alan Ruff. Thanks for listening to the Money Made Human podcast. We're grateful to spend time with you and hope you enjoyed it. If you want to join a credit union, choose us with love. Until the next time, first class credit union.