Money Made Human Podcast

Hugh Gaffney – Former MP, Author of Auchengeich & Founding Member of 1st Class Credit Union (#22)

• 1st Class Credit Union • Season 1 • Episode 22

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In episode 22 of the Money Made Human podcast, we’re joined by Hugh Gaffney, former MP, author of Auchengeich, and founding member of 1st Class Credit Union.

Host Gayle Lloyd speaks with Hugh about a life shaped by service, community, and a deep commitment to helping others. From growing up in a family of eight siblings to his career with Royal Mail, Hugh reflects on the experiences that led him into trade union activism and later into politics.

The conversation also explores Hugh’s powerful work in preserving the history of the Auchengeich mining disaster, where 47 men lost their lives in 1959, and the lasting impact it had on families and communities. He also shares personal reflections on loss, including the passing of his wife Anne, and the values that continue to guide him.

Key topics in this episode include:

  • Hugh’s upbringing in a large family and early influences
  • His career with Royal Mail and work with the Communication Workers Union
  • His journey from councillor to MP
  • The importance of credit unions and payroll deduction schemes
  • The story of the Auchengeich mining disaster and his book
  • Personal reflections on grief, family, and motivation to help others

We hope you enjoy listening to Hughie’s story as much as we did!

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Money Made Human podcast. It celebrates at its heart the work of credit unions and their vital role in enriching our lives and communities. Brought to you by First Class Credit Union, each episode features insightful discussions revealing the meaningful impact that can be made through economic collaboration. Mostly, it's a collection of compassionate conversations about navigating life and the individual journeys we take. We are delighted today to be joined by Hugh Gaffney, who is a founding member of the Credit Union, a former MP, and an author. We're delighted to have you here, Huey. Thank you for being here. Thanks very much. You're going to show me your book first of all.

SPEAKER_00

I'm going to show you the book first, just to get that out of the road. The book's Ock and Geek.

SPEAKER_01

The story of mining.

SPEAKER_00

It was a minor disaster. 47 men were killed in Scotland's worst disaster. It was in 1959, and it seems strange nowadays today that this is really the first actual book that's come out with pictures of these miners. Because I've been going to this memorial service since I heard about it 20 over 25 years ago. And every year ago, they read out the 47 names of the minors. And there's never been a picture. Nobody ever seen a picture of one of these minors. So I thought there's something wrong here. So I kept on asking, when are we going to get this book done? When are we going to get see the pictures of a miner? And the chap that runs it, William Willie Dolan, he always says, When are you going to write the book? I was always too busy. I was busy all the time between politics and between union work, the CWU, that I thought, when am I going to get time? I'm going to have to retire early to get the books done. I want to get done. I've got another four lined up. But this one became so important because the families were getting older.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

There were 76 kids left without a father.

SPEAKER_02

Is that right?

SPEAKER_00

And 41 widows. So this was this book was long overdue. There was a book done, but it wasn't, and I'm not going to say any about another book, but it was no pictures in it. So even me going for 25 years to memorial service, we never seen one picture of any minors. And I thought there's something wrong here. Since then, the post office decided to have a dispute, and I get sacked for 16 months. Oh no. During that dispute, um, I got my job back. I've won my case. I did go to the House of Lords, but that's a different story, maybe another day. But that gave me time to sit down and do a book properly for these 47 miners that died. I've been to 99% of their graves, and I've been to meet some of the families, and this is the book that's been developed from it. And we now have 30 pictures of the miners that people never seen. One family didn't know their dad was buried, another family hadn't seen a picture of their dad. They now have that information just through my research doing the book.

SPEAKER_01

And you've pulled all those archives together?

SPEAKER_00

And I've done all I've been and the libraries uh were very helpful. There was very little information. There was a lot of time in the newspapers had covered the story. It was national nation nationalwide. Um the story at the time, it was Scotland's worst disaster after basically after the war on that. Um, but 47 men died that shouldn't have died in my eyes. And it was basically carbon monoxide, a fan went in fire a thousand feet down, and this fan had kept on causing problems. But it was a changer shift between six o'clock and seven o'clock. And they reckon about half past six when the the night shift were came up the shaft and the day shift were coming down. There was nobody near the fan. The fan went in fire, and it was the carbon monoxide and the black smoke that basically these men on a bogey train into the black smoke, and within minutes they were put to sleep with the carbon monoxide. And there was 48 men on the bogey, one man survived, and he only survived because some of the young miners had held back to hopefully that these men were going to come back out, and they heard a noise, they ran in and actually fell over the man that was saved. Um Tam Green was his name, but the whole story was tragic, you know. Mining communities they all they live together, they work together, and they stand together, and that's what a mining community is all about. Um very tragic.

SPEAKER_01

When did this take place?

SPEAKER_00

This happened the 18th of September 1959, and it was a Friday morning, beautiful morning, just another Friday morning. The difference was the men were off for three days and strike, they worked to Monday, and they were on three days and strike um for a pay rise or some but they're on strike for three days anyway, and most of the men didn't go back in the Friday, it was thankfully it wasn't as busy as it should have been. But at the end of the day, 47 men still lost their life in a mining pit disaster um that should have never never happened. But it was that was the way of mining. Miners were expected to die. Miners died every week, and it was like an advert in the paper, you know. I gave you the name of the person, a family man, a boulder killed them, a shaft fell down, a bogey ran loose. These men were killed, but it was like a small three lines in a newspaper as if their lives didn't matter.

SPEAKER_01

It's hard to fathom what that looked like when you talk about so many men killed at the one time. It's hard to kind of kind of surreal in a way that so many men would die in one incident.

SPEAKER_00

And and it was, it was tragic because the fire wasn't put out for four days. The men were left, the men were left in the the mine for uh four days. They couldn't rescue them because of the heat and the intense.

SPEAKER_01

And were these men all from the same village?

SPEAKER_00

Basically, they all came across from Lanarkshire, a couple from Glasgow, but mostly all from Lanarkshire. Um they were spread out. There were miners in Lanarkshire, it was full of mining pits.

SPEAKER_03

Of course.

SPEAKER_00

And um in total, there were two disasters in that Lock and Geek, and they're both in the book. There was five men killed uh straight away. There was 11 men working away, and the detonator was left to blast the coal out the face of the pit. But the man who was supposed to press a pin walked away, and he left the left it set up, and out of the 11 men, five men died instantly. Somebody pressed a button and it caused a big explosion, and that left um five men dead. The six man died because of the burns the following day. Because he died in mining, if it was over five died, you had to have a public inquiry.

SPEAKER_03

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Because he died, the hit of a public inquiry, or that case would have just been another start, it wouldn't have mattered. So that was in 1931, and 1959 we had 47 miners died, 76 children left without a father, 41 widows, and one of those kids was only five weeks old, she had a baby. And her dad used to come down every morning, you excited dad, he would say, he'd pick the baby up and say, Can she see me? Can she see me? And of course, every day and every morning he was told, No, George, you need to wait till six weeks till her eyes can focus and she can see you. Sadly, George, um this disaster happened when the baby was only five weeks old. So although she never seen her dad, maybe, she heard the voice. But when I met her 65 years later, she had just retired and she says, I don't know what I'm going to tell you. I was only five weeks old. But this the story at five weeks old, George was along with the 47 miners, they were left entombed in the mine because the heat was so intense, they couldn't get the fire out. They had to flood the pit. The flooding the pit was the only way they could get the fire out. So to use a local burn and basically fill this place with water, but that also helped preserve some of the bodies, you know, the 47 bodies that were lying uh in a in a bogey. Um so that helped preserve the bodies, but they were lying for four days, and of course, if you're a housewife and you're it was your son that was down there, you're just hoping by hope that there's still somebody going to come out of that alive. Sadly, that didn't happen, you know.

SPEAKER_01

But do you think in you writing the book it's brought comfort to to relatives that are still alive today?

SPEAKER_00

It has brought a lot of comfort. Uh I've met more I've met some of the families, I've met kids, I've met, I call them kids, they're 65 to 85 year olds, and we've laughed and cried, but they're just they're absolutely love it because their dad isn't going to be forgotten. We always say going but not forgotten, and they just feel that somebody's actually listened to them because as kids, they were five-year-old to 12-year-old, but nobody ever spoke of it. There was a wall of silence to protect the kids. Some of these kids never haven't had a chance to speak about this till I chapter door and asked the story of them, and they're so delighted that somebody's came and listened to them because nobody ever listened to them, they never got a chance to talk to them because of his protection. And some of them, most of them, we we laughed and cried. The girl I was talking about, the five-week-old baby who's now 65, she says, I've got a son and daughter now, and she said, You'd like to see the photo. And it was the first time I seen a coloured photo. But the reason I burst out of tears when I seen these photos was because her son was a spitting image of your granddad. And I couldn't believe the resemblance. There's something definitely in family DNA, it goes a long way.

SPEAKER_01

What inspired you to write the book?

SPEAKER_00

I think it was a bit of a bit of um why why nobody ever done a book before. I've started doing a local book, uh, where I come from, Odddingston. Borderwall, Odddingston, Tonnoc Side, and we've got mine weed mines over there as well. And I've also lived in that area for over 30 years. So that inspired me to do a book where Bordle Castle, all the rich came through the Bordle, the merchants came through, but all the poor people like me were at the top of the hill, all the workings, workers basically, for the mines and all that. So in a square mile, we've got fantastic history. You know, a castle built and all the rest. I can tell you every single person stayed in that castle, you know. So Bordle's got a castle, Oddington's got turnox, biscuits, viewpark's got the miners, and we go to um View Park and Turnockside, Turnockside's got a caterpillar, which is a big American uh story. So in a square mile, we've certainly come through a lot, and I was born and bred there, you know, in a big place called Alpine. Um I'm for a family, uh a family of eight. But I was actually born in the house uh in a tenement block. There's no other it was only a square tenement block, it wasn't even a full square because I ran out of money. Um but in 1963 I was born basically in the area I've I've worked all my life in.

SPEAKER_01

So it means a lot to you.

SPEAKER_00

So it does mean a lot to me because that's that's my DNA.

SPEAKER_01

Of course. And I want to come back to mining later on. Yeah. I've brought a poem with me to to share with you. Let's talk about that early life. Obviously, I want to talk about you being an MP, your service to the trade union. Okay. Um, there's lots I want to talk to you about. Can we go back to the start? So you were one of eight. What was that like?

SPEAKER_00

Fantastic. A busy household. Yeah, it is. My mum had six years of siblings, actually nine years, because my dad's sister died early. So my mum took on the two girls. Um, so they became part of the family. And it was eight years, so whenever my friends all went home and we all played, I went into a house full of more kids again, you know. I was the same youngest. So you were never bored. I was the second youngest, I was spoiled. And even to this day, every Sunday, uh, my brothers and sisters, we meet up for breakfast um every Sunday. And we started that basically after my wife's death. Because I did go back a wee bit religiously back to chapel, and I think we've all come back to uh find our because I I found I'll talk about my wife's death maybe later, but I found comfort for some reason um on that, but not over not over uh kill because it's just something I found comfort in, and it's even more comfortable now because we all go for breakfast together, my brothers and sisters, you know. So what did your parents do? My mum was uh she actually worked as a nurse in Rotten Row, and she was in charge of she was basically helping babies, but she was in charge of the stillborn babies. Um and I the reason I'll say that is because she lived to eighty six, she ended up in dementia. But the night before she died, there was another woman. I mean, I was a counsellor, and I know baby jumped to me about here, but I was a counsellor. I never took my wages for the council because I'd MP at the same time, I was an MP and council at the same time, so I put my council wages back into helping other people. I never took any council wages, so we got some parts built, we've got some charities helped, and one woman contacted me, she was going to sell her horse, and she does a lot for Stillborn, for uh small graves and helping uh people with Stillborn children, and she was she was going to sell her horse to keep this charity going. So I asked her not to do that, keep the horse, and I gave her some money to keep the charity going, a four-figure sum. I said, and that's not from me, that's from my mum. My mum was 86 and she died the next day. So it was very it was very heartbreaking, but at the same time, it was the right time, you know. And and I said that at the time, I says, it's not from me, this is from my mum. And my mum passed over the next day. So it was nice for that.

SPEAKER_01

And what about your dad? What did your dad do?

SPEAKER_00

My dad was a joiner. My dad moved to Eddingston when they built the caterpillar. Caterpillar's a big American factory, and it was bringing money to the area and bringing new jobs because the miners were all mines were all shut now. But the caterpillar factory was on big yellow cater, famous caterpillar factory, which did become a big political issue. But my dad came for the Carlton in Glasgow, and my mum came for Springbourne, but they were offered a house in East Co Bride at Uddingston, and they always said Uddingston people were so friendly, they'll go to Uddingston, and that's who we end up in Alpine, where I was born. Um, and it's still the same idea. The Oddingston people are so nice.

SPEAKER_01

And for people that are listening that might not know about Uddingston, you you did mention it. That's that's a global company now.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. It's it's called Tonnock's Carnel Waivers. And the funny thing was, um I know I'm referring back to my wife. My wife worked here for 16 years.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, did she?

SPEAKER_00

And she made the tea cakes, and every so often she would check the zero number to see if it was one of hers.

SPEAKER_01

The tea cakes are the best. The tea cakes are the best.

SPEAKER_00

And I when I talk about my wife, I'll come back and refer to tonics because I've got a nice story to tell um after she passed away.

SPEAKER_01

So you've grown up in a very busy family.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And what about when you started your career? Did you think this is I want to serve others, or where did that come from?

SPEAKER_00

Well, actually I was the politic, the political side came in when I started doing my union rep. Um, I started to be in a union rep. It was five people, and we were all given a brush, and was to become cleaners as part of our post office setup. But only some years got asked and some years didn't. So the result of that was the manager became the cleaner because we refused to do it. We're post when we weren't cleaners. No, that was the it was just it was a night shift job, and to be honest with you, we used to have been doing the cleaner up. It was all we were asked to do was brush up behind us, but the manager became so I became a rep. So that started some activism with you. That started that well, actually started when I was uh I was what you call a part-time worker, and all the full-time staff were. And was this with Royal Mail? This was Royal Mail. I started in Royal Mail at the where the garden festival was down at Springbourne Road, Springbourne Quay. And my first ever speech was they had a big meeting, and we had 21 and a half hours, and the posties had 60 hours, and we were saying, Well, surely could share some of that over time with us and give us it all. So my first speech uh was about a I was I actually made a big speech in front of about 200 people saying when your kids have all got 60 hours and your kids are all getting nice new computers and all that, my kids will get a selection box, but thanks very much. So I became the selection box kid, and it was one of my first speeches ever. And that did, um then I realized that I had a voice. My mother always said to you, You've got a good Scottish voice and you use such tongue. And unfortunately, I've never shut up a sunset, as you can probably tell.

SPEAKER_01

And then you did more work with the trade union, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well I I stayed with that I did more work. I I became a community uh CWU rep. Which is the communication workers? Communication workers union. I then realized that it wasn't just a workplace we needed a voice, it was out in the community. So I got a new computer for the kids once I got my full-time job, but I got a new computer for the kids, and I always feel how spoiled we were because we never we forgot all about this brand new computer we got, PC, the whole lot. And it was about six o'clock at night, and I'm saying to Ann, my wife, I'm saying, we forgot something. There's something we forgot. The kids had bikes and everything, using this big computer sitting in a box. So we set it all up, and of course, all me and Anne could do with it was play solitaire, you know. But the kids knew more about the computer than we did. Um, but that led me then to do education further with the union, okay. Doing that, and at that time it was like I had education in the workplace, so I learned more about Microsoft Works, how to do stuff and all that. And I learned more about the computers and becoming type writing. I still only type one finger, by the way. I'm still doing that, and that includes the book I've done as well. But I've always been involved right in doing minutes and secretaries and all that, and I learned through North Lancashire Trade Union Council through community union, we're doing a school on computers, and that's how I got involved with that. I then took a stage further. It was a trade union council in North Lancashire, and along to the meeting, and he says, Well, thanks everybody, but we're going to shut shop now. That's there's no enough people interested. And I said, Well, look, I've just got a new computer. I says, I can I can do minutes. And somebody else says, Well, if you do the minutes, I'll do the chairman. Somebody else says, Well, I'll go to the treasurer then, I'll stay on his treasurer. And that was 25 years ago. We've now got three memorials, and we do International Workers' Memorial Day celebrated every year at Summer Lee Heritage Museum. Uh, the past we inherit, the future we build, and if there's a rally or if there's any cause, and it happens in North Lancashire, you'll see us here. We were placards. Amazing. North Lancashire. And it's still going, and it's going very well.

SPEAKER_01

So, when did you become an MP and why did you decide to do that?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I just became a councillor about three months before it, and I thought if I'm going to be a councillor, I may as well be an MP. And I was actually through Edinburgh, and Kes of Dogdale was a Scottish leader at the time, and I went through to give a bit of support, and um it was a it was going to be a press release and a news release for the Labour Party, and then it was all called off, and he says, We're putting it back an hour. I said, What's happening? And he says, There's a possibility cheese or me might cause a snap general election. And I said to him then, I says, Well, I'll be the next MP for Coat Bridge then. Coat Bridge Chrysler and Bell Sill. She's not announced it yet. I says, Well, I'm telling you now, why she announces it? Um, he says, We're not definite. I says, Well, if it's going to happen in her time. I'm putting my name down for Coat Brench Kyson and Bell South. I'm taking it back because we lost it to SNP and we did win it back, you know.

SPEAKER_01

And what was what was your your inspiration behind that? Did you want to serve others?

SPEAKER_00

I I just felt you could make a difference. I felt I could make a difference. And I know and I did make a difference. I I felt myself I made a difference because one of the biggest differences I made. I also remember the campaign, it was about just breaking down the walls in Westminster to see that anybody could be an MP. Now, if I can be an MP, anybody can MP. And I remember chatting my doors and the doors of Coat Bridge and Chrys and Bellsill and round all the areas. I'm saying, all I'm asking you to do is send a working man to Parliament. That's all I'm asking you to do. Send a working man to Parliament. Look, give me the opportunity to serve you, you know. And they did. And the day I won it was fantastic. And the Monday I was travelling down to Westminster. I went into Thursday. And the Monday I went to work with my uniform on to say my cheerios to everybody and thank them. And they're all congratulating me. And somebody says, You still got your uniform on. But I thought you, I thought you became an MP. I says, I have. I says, Well, what do you do with my uniform on? I says, because I'm heading down to Westminster just now. I've got a plenty of catching in an earless time. And I wore my uniform down to Westminster and I walked into Westminster with my uniform on. And the guy says, Oh sorry, mate, this is for new MPs. He says, What are you delivering anyway? I said, Well, I'm delivering justice for workers, and I'm one of the new MPs.

SPEAKER_01

And what was the reaction to you wearing your uniform?

SPEAKER_00

It was absolutely quite good. The boy actually says in the front door, Well done. He says, Well done, mate, that was his words. Um you go, you know. So it was good because once I was in there, and I went I travelled down when I to uh UMP's Jet Kill and Paul Sweeney. Paul's now in MSP and still going. So we've got some footage of Big Ben in that with my uniform, you know. Uh so uh it was very it was one of the moments like I'm just a working class boy, I'm just a boy. I'm a Lanarkshire boy. A Lanarkshire boy that's came fair, big house, big family. Um, and I just felt this is I chapter doors, send a working man to parliament, and it was all about breaking down the barriers because far too many people think you've got to be well educated to be an MP, and it was one of the easiest things.

SPEAKER_01

Or wealthy, or you know, you don't have to be.

SPEAKER_00

No, he certainly don't he certainly don't need it. I remember sitting there in Westminster one time. I'm saying, how come they come up with all these big fancy words? And how does everybody understand it? He says, have a look about it. He says, I'm just looking at their iPads to try and come up with a big word. He says, Nobody understands it.

SPEAKER_01

You know, were your parents still around when you became an MP?

SPEAKER_00

They were. Uh when I became an MP, I became a counsellor, and uh my mum was just starting early dementia. Um, and she says, Oh, you might be a counsellor for that sort of stuff. And then somebody told her I became an MP this time. The dementia was kicking in more, and she goes, An MP? That's a stupid job, that you know. And my dad even was even better because we were standing just where we became an MP, and one of his mates came up and he's talking away and he says, 'Well, Matt, you must be proud of your boy.' And he says, 'Which one?

SPEAKER_01

I've got four.' I think that's a lyrics.

SPEAKER_00

So that is that is that is my that's my dad saying, 'Don't you get above your station,' you know. And I never would anyway, I would never be allowed to.

SPEAKER_01

And Huey, you've been if a really big part of the credit union movement as well, particularly for first class. You're one of our founding members. What what would you say about the importance of credit unions in society today?

SPEAKER_00

Definitely. The reason why I I I pushed for the credit union at the very beginning, and I got involved at the very beginning, just being a member, and I pushed it in the workplace as well, because a lot of us guys couldn't get couldn't you get a loan. You couldn't get a loan off the bank. And a lot is always a debt, so you were always worried about it. The biggest thing and the biggest asset that I found was that it came off your wages, you know. Yeah. It came off your pay slip. You weren't standing in a queue, you hand over money. When you hand over money, you can hold it back for a week, you can hold it back for a month. You just end up in more debt. The credit union was good for like say trying it a holiday or trying it alone, even just to decorate the house. I just felt it was more comfortable and more easier to get money from a credit union. And when I used to get money with you make an appointment with the bank manager, and you wear your best suit and get in and dress up and beg for money that you're paying back. The credit union was a workplace thing. You know, it was it was something, and it started. Andy Andy created miracles because he used to do the lottery, and then he started doing. I'm talking about Andy Andy.

SPEAKER_01

Andy the CEO before me.

SPEAKER_00

I remember I was a young man, but he was doing Andy started off doing the post office lottery stuff and that, and then he thought we can do more, you know, like running the social club and all these things. And I just felt he he got it right, you know. He used to work in the mail centre, and I was saying parcel force, so I'd always get the partial force boys to sign up. I'd always encourage a credit union, and I still do encourage credit unions, even in the communities as well. I'm a member of the Kitlands Credit Union over on Cold Bridge because again, they do fantastic work, you know. And Thornwand's got its own credit union, they started to come up more and more, and uh Unison has got a big one as well. Uh Runburg is a friend of mine as well, Stephen Mooney. So I I'm all in favour of credit unions because we have set a coup up for the bank, and now the banks are all shut. You've got to talk to your machine to get your money.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we we've started the the mission around money made human because we want to retain some of that heritage. Yeah, we want our members to know that they'll be treated as a human respectfully and fairly and without judgment. Yeah, so whilst the technology might change, we're still trying to keep all that from the past going forward.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely, and I think that's what we've got to remember because it's always hard to borrow money, you know, and it's always what cap and handy. Some people get embarrassed about asking for money and all the rest of it. But the fact that we still got this source that comes straight off your wages made a big difference because you didn't see it, it was handed over and you paid your debt, and you also got your credit cleared. You know, it gave you a bit of stability again that we could clear your credit and be respectful.

SPEAKER_01

And we've also retained the fact that if you're borrowing from us, we ask you to keep saving a little bit as you're borrowing, so at the end of your loan, you get a lump sum back, yeah, which is helpful.

SPEAKER_00

And that that was one of the key drivers actually, because for the first time ever, I probably started saving as I was paying back. So you would pay maybe £100, £80 in the debt, and £20 was saving. And before you know it, your debt was going down and your savings were going up. And that was helpful.

SPEAKER_01

And that's that remains today.

SPEAKER_00

And it built you a lot, it built you money, you could borrow again, more money. And the exact same thing happened. The more you get the more you started clearing your debt, your savings were going up.

SPEAKER_01

You sound like uh really like a a local hero in many ways with your trade unionism and the helping the credit union movement, serving with Royal Mail. Um, and I just wonder how do you feel about the things that you've done over your career?

SPEAKER_00

I I don't. I think that's where I keep on going because I always feel that we should be doing um help others, you know. That's all I like to do in life, you know. I've I worked in the pub trade for seven years. I've I've seen all walks of life, you know. I used to even when I first started with Royal Mail, I used to deliver in Brighton and I'd finish up in Boswell, and I would go through the time zone with every single class of people who walked. You know, I've met the famous and I've met the very poor, you know. Um it's that old poem walk with kings, but never was the touch of the common man. Ah and it's just basically if I can help somebody, I'll help somebody, you know. And I don't think about all these achievements because it you always need people to help you anyway. Oh, definitely. But um maybe one day I'll look back when I s when I settle down and stop. I'll look back. With pride for sure.

SPEAKER_01

For sure.

SPEAKER_00

I'm very I'm don't get wrong, I'm very delighted to see memorials that were never there before. I'm delighted to do stuff, you know. I'm also a founder of the Keir Hardy Society, which was a which is a which again, which the Labour Party to me was all about, you know, working class people getting a voice. That's all we asked for a voice, something to listen to. Put our ideas forward and put them forward. And that's all I wanted to do, even as an MP, you know, just use my voice.

SPEAKER_01

I'm certain you know, we we have pride with you in terms of being one of our finding members, but I'm certain your family must be proud of you. You you mentioned earlier you lost your your beloved wife Anne last year. Yeah. And I wondered if I may ask what your bereavement journey has been like.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I lost Anne in May, 8th of May uh 2025. Last year I lost Anne. And it was a battle the year before because she had cancer, and she she was a very brave woman. I mean, she was great for me. I had 14 years of happy. Well, I was always told um I'm punching above her weight. So that was always a side that she was nice and that was playing. But I used to always say to her, it was her that was punching above her weight, but nobody ever believed that line. But we had a great life with three boys. We've got Matthew, Christopher, and Paul, and uh they're all now three fine young men, and it's all Anne's doing. And I say that because me being involved in politics, union, and everything I do, I never I was never there all the time. She brung the kids up. That was that was that was her life, love and life, you know, and she done a fantastic job. Um sadly, the the cancer attacked and she had chemo, she won the battle. She looked as if everything was going well. We knew it was going to be terminal, but we thought we'd get another summer together. And just as the weather changed, she took pneumonia, ended up back in the hospital, and she she she was she was she was suffering, but she wasn't showing it, you know. She was definitely the one beneath my wings. Um, and that's a song that's always been close to me, you know, because she was my hero, you know. And on the basis because she was the one that was just she walked in my shadow, you know, but she was the one that was a brave one, you know, and she was the one with all the strengths, and she allowed me to do it, you know. Even though I was writing this the book we spoke about earlier, knock and geek book, at night time she would say, Are we in and do that book? She says, just I'll be okay. She says, You need to finish that book for the children and for the men, you know, and that's why she's got her own page in the book, but almost in a way she was putting others before herself there, you know, and uh was that what she was like? She was, you know, and I've just recently I've just had a spiritualist there, and um he kind of summed it up. He says he haven't realized you were walking with an angel at the time because he says, But the both these are very, very similar, you know. He says, he says, What a team you were, and this guy, I've never met this man before. I only got a ticket to go and see him 40 hours before it, and you can have your doubts and all the rest of it, but he said stuff to me that he says, and with the phone that's in your drawer, you keep on to it and looking at our pictures, and that was something even my boys didn't know. So there's definitely a sixth sense out there, and I'm glad because at least I know when I'm hearing the voices in my head, it's interesting. Did that bring you some comfort? It did bring maybe a bit of comfort, yes, it has. And that and I'm only saying that because I know she's around, you know, and I know she will always be around. And he says that, you know, when I met Anne, he says you'll be dancing again in the skies. And the reason he mentioned that was because when I met Anne, I was doing my John Travel at a disco and I took my jacket off, swung it around, and scalped this lassie in the face. And that became my wife.

SPEAKER_01

What disco was this?

SPEAKER_00

This this was up there I haven't made nothing personal to the most ends. But I used to go to the hat and make and that, and I was always I'm always one for taking my shirt off when I'm dancing. I don't know why, but I've quite take a shirt off. So but I've always I've always enjoyed dancing, and so did Anne, you know. But um her face, her face that day when I took the jacket off and scalped, I had to apologise and end up, she became my wife with 40 years of happiness.

SPEAKER_01

And for bereavement and bereavement care is really important at first class, it's something we champion a lot. For for anyone that's recently been bereaved like yourself, is there any advice you would offer them or any any guidance that you would offer them?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I will say it's very hard. It's hard at the beginning. It doesn't get it might not get easier. The tears might stop flowing, you know. You'll have your moments and take them, take every moment. My my my my niece got married this year in Italy, and we'd have a family wedding, and it was like in June, so it was a couple of months after Anne had passed over. And um I found it hard at first, but I I didn't want to let my niece down, and I didn't want to read the less of the farm because the full family went, you know. She'd booked a farmhouse in the middle of Italy, and it was a fantastic wedding. Uh Leah and Malcolm's wedding. But the time they came to cut the cake, they're around a swimming pool, an outside swimming pool, and they're about to cut the cake, and I was first up to get the footy and all the rest of it. And Malcolm came up and says, I can't see Paul, who's my brother, and his wife, it's here, Leah's your daughter. I said, Oh, they're being over the other side of the field, I'll go up and get them. So I ran up to get them, and I said, You should need to get in for the footage. She said, Oh, we're building this, we're building our tonnox tea cakes. So I goes back to tonnox where I worked for 16 years, and it was the tea cakes you worked on. I said, Right, you get in, get me some footage. I says, but I'll build the tea cakes. So I started building these tea cakes, and my sister came up at this point, she says, What are you doing? I said, You start building the tower with the camel waivers. But as I was building these tea cakes, the fireworks were all going off after it, and the fireworks were all in the sky. And I don't I don't know test to how it ended up, but I ended up in Middle East Field, standing like that, standing my arms crossed, watching these fireworks, and I could see the stars through it, and the tears were just rolling down my face. But my sister came over to him, and my sister locked him up, and it says, Are you okay? And I see his eyes, so we all got a cuddle, and then he says, Huey, look what's in your arms, and I was my arms for fold it. We had a box of tea cakes in my arms. So it was a sign, so it was a sign, and that was me. I just collapsed and bubbles and I cried my heart out because for that to happen, uh there was no way it was planned, you know. So I definitely believe um it's hard. The toughest bit for me now is sitting in the house. So I'm sitting in the house myself, especially at the weekend, because I always keep myself busy. I was keeping myself busy, but one day I'll have to face up to it and and sit down. And but it's hard, but at the same time, it's comfortable to know that and you feel her presence is still there, she's still watching. And at the end of the day, I've got three boys to look after now. And uh the three boys are three men, they're looking after me, but I'm still young enough to cross the road, so they can I'll look after them just and quite often the grief it's love that's sitting there, like it's an outpouring of that, isn't it? Um I carry a I carry a wee medal fertile because we couldn't get a key ring here with her picture on it. But I kiss it every day, going to work, and I say another day, another dollar, another step closer, you know.

unknown

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

So um, but again, it's just it's nice to have it, nice to have it roundabout, you know.

SPEAKER_01

And she drove you on to finish her book. Yeah. And I've brought, I'm a Lanarkshire girl.

SPEAKER_00

Good.

SPEAKER_01

I've brought a mining poem to finish off our podcast. Well, not quite finished because we've got some questions from our team as well. But I just thought I would read this to you. I thought it was really poignant. And it's from a book about Lanarkshire mines. It's called The Miner's Last Shift. When the last pit is closed and to the sun, the miner turns his face erect and free, the last shift worked, and the last black ton won. What do you deem the minor speech will be? Which I thought was really lovely and really relates to your book around remembrance of them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. And you know, miners were full of talents, you know, it was singers, comedians, and poets. And I I read out a poem myself, um, that one of the miners' friends wrote, because he was into poetry, and his friends wrote a poem, and I read it out all the time because I discovered it during my research, and it's a beautiful poem about we all go to funerals and we all stand there, yeah, you know, and some is and we don't really know the person, sometimes it's it's getting buried. Um but the poem talks about he's a stranger to a lot of people, but he's my friend and he will remain with me forever, and that's why it's so important. Everybody always says gone but not forgotten. And my book about the 47 miners was they will not be forgotten. You know, there's a memorial there, there is no memorial was stolen, by the way. But we've got this community that built up through the mining DNA. Miners' houses were built for miners, and that's how the community was built. There was no council houses, the pit owner owned the houses, you had to pay your rent to them. You owned the shop. If you didn't use the shop, you didn't have your job, you lost your house and your job for not using the shop. What you gave you in one hand was taken back out in the other hand, and that was an economy circle that he had control of. If you wanted a loan, you know, if you wanted a credit union, if you go and see this man who owned your life and he owned your family. He wanted boys, he didn't want girls because girls went all down the mines. It was like a royal family, you know. And some others in their own way were happy when it was a girl because he wasn't getting control of the girl, you know.

SPEAKER_01

And you've created this legacy in their memory called Ock and Geek.

SPEAKER_00

Ock and Geek. Gone but not forgotten.

SPEAKER_01

And if any of our members or listeners want to buy that, where can they get that from?

SPEAKER_00

I've actually they can contact me myself, but I have got a list of places and I'm going to just do a quickly. You're gonna do a little commercial for us. Right. Uh the Ockin Geek book is now available in Ockin Geek Miners Welfare, which is in Moody'sburn, Old Kirk Museum, Kirk and Tulloch, the Catlin Bookshop in Glasgow, the Gates Bar in Bells Hill, Kitlands Credit Union in Coatbridge, Lennox Town Library, Moodyburn Library, Muirhead Flowers in Moody's Burn, Summer Lee Heritage Museum, Tunnockside Miners Club, and Facebook contact myself. And let's add first class credit union to that. That's been great. I'll first class credit unions and I'll supply books to you.

SPEAKER_01

Now, before we go, we always end our podcast with some questions from our team, totally random. So I'm going to ask you those. One of our uh volunteers who's also done a lot of work with CW, he wanted to ask a question if you would be buying a drink for him, and that came from Andy Gibb, one of our volunteers. So I think that's just a yes and a no.

SPEAKER_00

Well, if it's a cup of tea, yes. If it's a cup of tea, yes, no, I'll buy I'll buy Andy and all right.

SPEAKER_01

First question. If you could choose just one reason why someone should join a trade union and a credit union, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00

Basic unity and support. You know that's what it's about. I mean, it's you won't be left alone. You know, you will be there's always support about you.

SPEAKER_01

What would your best piece of advice? Be to someone starting out in life.

SPEAKER_00

Starting out in life, just look after yourself, look after your family, just be happy in life. Um, that's all we are. Just look after yourself, look after your family, and that's as long as you're happy in life and happy doing what you're doing, money's online material.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good life. If you could speak to your younger self, what would you say knowing what you know now?

SPEAKER_00

That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_01

That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe she'll have stuck in harder at school and educated myself. But I think my education actually came. I'd I've had a good life. I I've had a privileged life, I've had a big family. Uh my family's always been a great supporters. My own family, we are and my three boys, has been absolutely fantastic. These and my mum and dad were fantastic as well. I've had a privileged life. I didn't need money to be happy. I've always been a happy-go-lucky person, I think. But looking back, uh, I've been very happy. I still want to be that boy for Berkenshaw just growing up with my family. Well, it's your story. And my friends. What was your parents' names? My parents' names, Helen was my mum, who was a nurse who went on to become a social worker, and then she ended up running Craig Family Daycare Centre, and she was always involved in helping people. I'd probably get most of my mum in there, to be honest. She was always helping everybody. She was a tiny woman, and but she'd a mighty big heart. My dad, my dad worked all his life.

SPEAKER_01

What was his name?

SPEAKER_00

Matthew was my dad. Matt Gaffney was my dad, uh Matthew, and he was a joiner. And again, he became a Eucharist minister in the in the chapel. And I mentioned that because at that time it was all professional people, it was always a doctor, a lawyer, something like that. And my dad was the first working class man that was giving out communion. And I never realized that until one of his old pals said to me one time, he says, the first time I went down for communion off your dad, I was in tears because a working class man was giving out the Eucharist minister. He says, and your dad deserved it more than anybody. And both of them were always helping charities, you know. They used to help Kifin Grotto, and my dad, my dad, my dad used to get a phone call. Um he'd be finishing a shift, and it'd be somebody it'd be a priest looking for a roof getting fixed or something getting fixed, just any joiner work. But my dad always went, you know, and I suppose that's where I get the bit you keep going and helping others. So it's in the blood of helping others, definitely help, it's definitely in the blood.

SPEAKER_01

No, I think I might know the answer to this. Okay. Um, but it's a lovely question to end on. So if your life was a song, what song would it be?

SPEAKER_00

That is a good one. Do you know actually? Um there's a couple of songs that I because I've I've been asked to pick out some songs recently, you know, and I like the heavy, he's my brother, you know. But my favourite song of all is Mullock and Tyre.

SPEAKER_03

Is that nice?

SPEAKER_00

And and I like Mullock and Tyre. Um, and the reason I like it is because when I look at the video, it's about communities. The community all comes out, you know, and that's what's about supporting. And the community do all come out, it's a nice Scottish song as well. And for some reason, I've always liked Paul McCartney, um, the Beatles of the 60s, that was always the kind of music, just probably my age and all the rest of it. But um, I also like Markham and Wise Bring Me Sunshine. Oh, yeah, and that's all we asked for.

SPEAKER_01

And I think with Mullifkantyre, when those kind of mass pipes and drums come out, it's like goosebumps, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

It is, definitely is, it's the goosebumps, you know, and and I've picked some songs, um, like he ain't heavy, he's my brother, because that's what the miners were all about, you know. Um the the one that we always the one I've shared with my wife, and we played it at her graveside, uh, her final moments was the wind beneath my wings because she was a strength. Like I um I'll she walked in my shadow sometimes, which was never right because she was a she was more than her own person, and um and it to me I've just been lucky in life.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, what a lovely way to end. Uh Hugh Gafney, can I just say thank you so much for being with us today? Um, I it was really, really brilliant to hear about all your achievements, but also for the book and the remembrance that you've pulled together for those minors. Thanks for being with us.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure and get joined in the credit union. Absolutely, absolutely. That is cut.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for listening to the Money Made Human podcast. We're grateful to spend time with you and hope you enjoyed it. If you want to join a credit union, choose us. With love. Until the next time, first class credit union.