Paul Sweeney – Candidate in the Scottish Parliamentary Election for MSP (#21)

Episode 21 of the Money Made Human podcast features Paul Sweeney, candidate in the Scottish Parliamentary election and former MSP.

Before entering politics, Paul worked in the shipbuilding industry, an experience that continues to shape his views on industry, communities, and public service. In this episode, host Gayle Lloyd speaks with Paul about his five years in the Scottish Parliament, his upbringing in Glasgow, and the influence of his parents’ values, trade union roots, and strong sense of service to others.

The conversation explores Paul’s passion for shipbuilding and Scotland’s industrial heritage, the importance of investing in communities and skilled industries, and the role credit unions can play in supporting people across Scotland. Paul also reflects on his support for the Coalition of Credit Unions during discussions around the withdrawal of the Family Protection Plan, as well as the impact recent events in Glasgow have had on the city and its communities.

Key topics in this episode include:

• Paul’s journey from shipbuilding into politics
• His five years serving in the Scottish Parliament
• The influence of his upbringing, family values, and trade union roots
• The importance of maintaining Scotland’s industrial heritage
• Recent events in Glasgow and their impact on local communities
• The role and importance of credit unions within society

Join us for an insightful conversation about industry, community, public service, and the values that shape leadership.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Money Made to Human podcast. It celebrates at its heart the work of credit unions and their vital role in enriching our lives and communities. Brought to you by first-class credit unions. Each episode features insightful discussions revealing the meaningful impact that can be made through economic collaboration. Mostly, it's a collection of compassionate conversations about navigated life and the individual journeys we take. Welcome to Money Made Human, a podcast by First Class Credit Union. We're delighted today to be joined by Paul Sweeney, who is the Labour and Cooperative candidate for Glasgow Easter House in Springburn. Welcome, Paul! Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

That's very kind of you.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Oh my goodness. So as this records, we are mid-election. Yep. The election is on the 7th.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

7th of May, yeah. So just uh over two weeks away.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

And so how are you feeling about that? First of all, just as a just as a human, what does what does that make you feel like?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, it's certainly crept up. It feels like uh it's flown in uh five years uh in the Scottish Parliament since May 2021, and it's been a big learning curve for me personally. I've found it very fulfilling, I've also found it exhausting, uh, and it does take over your life. It's not really a job, it's a lifestyle choice, to be honest with you. Um I'm trying to think of a job that you can compare it to, but I don't know, like maybe becoming a nun or becoming a priest or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

You know, it just becomes a whole it's a vocation, it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Uh so it's been great, and I've really enjoyed helping people, and that can range from sorting someone's bins out to getting someone life-saving surgery. Um, you know, so it does make an impact both at a personal level but also trying to fix problems that are more systemic, um, whether that's the drug death problems or the transport system in Glasgow. Um, but I thoroughly enjoy getting stuck into problem solving. Um, my background's quite unusual for a politician. I came from the shipbuilding industry um and the manufacturing background kind of fell into parliament the first time around uh as a bit of a wildcard candidate. Um, and I won by 242 votes in 2017 when I was the first elected to the UK Parliament, and then I lost my seat again in 2019. I was out um of politics for you know a year and a half or so during the pandemic, which is probably the worst timing ever to lose your job. You know, you lose your job at Christmas, and then by February, March, we're in a lockdown situation, so it was kind of surreal. Um but you know, I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to be elected to the Scottish Parliament um and to have made a positive contribution, I think. Um, and I guess there's always that apprehension about elections, you never know what's gonna happen, particularly because when I'm out canvassing, probably spoken to about 4,000 or so people in the constituency since the start of the year. Um, and by and large, people are really undecided. Uh, even in the last few days speaking to folk, they're still oh even got my postal vote in. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do to persuade me. I'm open to persuasion. Um, so just whilst the polls are saying one thing about you know who's in the lead and everything else, um, I actually think there's a big chunk of voters who are going to make their minds up quite late in the day, and that could swing the whole election in a different direction. So it's quite unpredictable.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

And and I suppose in the way it's also exciting in terms of for people that want to vote and take part in that, that they get to make a choice and and get to really speak to others about what's important to them.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Absolutely. And one thing that really worries me and depresses me is the lack of engagement. So um my worry is that the turnout at this election will be really low because people are just feeling like politics is broken, um, none of the parties serve the needs of the people, people are disillusioned about how effective politics is, and um my worry is that that'll depress turnout. You know, even at the general election in my the same constituency, roughly, that I'm uh going for the turnout was less than half of um the available electorate, so it was below 50%. And I just think that's really dangerous for our democracy, that level of disengagement from the system, particularly in the more deprived communities over the city, um where you're seeing turnout really low, maybe even as low as 20%.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

But is it a symptom of what's going on globally though, that people are frustrated about what's going on? They're they're scared of what's going on, we're worried about income and money, and just the the kind of instability that seems to be happening globally.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah, I mean, even today I was speaking to one of my colleagues who's uh campaigning with me, uh, and she was like, you know, just filled the car up, that's £10 extra than it would have been you know a month ago, and you know, the nursery costs have gone up £30. Um, you know, it's just it's just eating away people's sense of prosperity. Um, it can be quite corrosive, and particularly when you see you know in America how volatile their politics is right now, the Iranian um situation, etc. Um, people just feel completely baffled by it and how unpredictable and scary some of this stuff can be, and the ripple effects it has for everyone's daily lives. Um, and there is a real sense of broken trust in politics. So, you know, for all I can do to influence the situation is just have my own personal commitment to try and do a good job. Um, and to be honest, I I think I do get a bit of recognition for being a hard worker, um, for being, I don't want to say earnest, but just like kind of like being straightforward with people and trying to represent about it. Um yeah, and like you know, people come to you with an issue, you try your best to actually be effective at resolving it. Uh, you know, whether it was the funeral protection plans uh situation, which I know we'll be discussing in some depth later on, um or whether it's you know the bus system in Glasgow, trying to get it franchised and brought into public control, like in Manchester, um, or whether it's tenements in Glasgow, so we've got you know all these old tenements with huge maintenance issues and factoring problems, and how we work to build our community housing association movement to try and create greater resilience um for people who might suddenly find themselves out of their home because the side of their tenements fallen off, uh, which is one of the situations I've had to deal with with a constituent recently.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

And also most recently, I saw you on TV at the scene of the large fire in the world.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

On the Green Street fire next to Central Station, yeah, you never know in the minute. Uh, you know, it was just absolutely bizarre that a vape shop could create that level of destruction. I think that's really opened people's eyes to the vulnerabilities we have in our cities. Um, it was just you know, luck that that building wasn't a residential building, uh, and thankfully it was on a weekend, so all the businesses above the shop um were vacant largely. There was a few people, but they managed to get out. Um, but the fact that that could have destroyed Scotland's busiest railway station was truly shocking. And a building that's you know so iconic in Glasgow's landscape, um, to see you know 160 odd years of history wiped out in a matter of hours was pretty devastating.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

And I know that's something that's important to you in terms of buildings and conservation.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Well, just before we started the podcast, I had the evening times out and I was uh I was uh I had a story about a school in Deniston that I'm trying to um get restored. Uh so there's just uh there's always some heritage issue I'm dealing with, um, whether it's the Springbourne Glasshouse, which is one of the things that persuaded me to first get involved in politics, was my frustration at the dereliction of the neighbourhood I lived in. Um, you know, we lost a beautiful building in Springbourne in 2012, the Hall, the Public Halls, um, which was torn down the day after Christmas, like on some flimsy grounds that it was structurally unsound. Uh, and I'd always sort of sat um as a kid, I remember sitting with my grand uh with the old picture books of Glasgow and looking at these beautiful old buildings and the black and white photographs, and even as a kid like building it out of Lego and trying to fantasize about the building being fixed up again. So to see it demolished so suddenly was almost like a childhood dream destroyed. Um, and that was kind of my you know evangel evangelising moment or you know, radicalizing moment to become more involved in politics because I was like, well, if someone doesn't step up and deal with this, we're going to just lose all this.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

You want it to make the difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

So I think for people, there will be a moment of frustration or a moment of of anger. Um channel that into something positive rather than just letting it eat you up inside. Um, and that's maybe one of the issues with politics right now. People feel angry, frustrated, a lack of progress. How do you channel that into something useful? Um, and I've found uh a quite a meaningful outlet in being involved in politics. I don't always get what I want, uh I don't always agree with my own party. Um, you know, and I think people feel that, you know, they maybe vote for somebody and they feel oh they didn't do what they said they were going to do. I feel a bridge breach of trust. Well, if you want to be involved, you need to kind of step into the situation and argue for what you believe in. So political parties are often a vehicle for activism. Uh, even if you don't always agree, it's a way for you to get your point across. And I think that's something we've lost. Yeah, whether it's through the trade union movement, whether it's through the credit union movement, whether it's through housing associations, you know, there's a lot of ways for you know people who have a community spirit to exercise their power. Um, and it's important to recognise that.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

I have so many questions, just even on what you've just said there. Can we circle back though? Tell me about Paul Sweeney growing up. What was your early life like?

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Um, well, growing up, uh my mum works in the bank, uh, Bank of Scotland, as a kind of cashier, uh, and my dad worked in Yarrows, uh, the shipbuilding company in Scotston.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Um, so my early life for our members in other parts of the UK, Yarrows is one of the Clyde shipyards. An institution.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Yeah, yeah. So everybody has an uncle or an aunt or a gran or a granddaugh who worked in the shipyards on the Clyde. It's part of Glasgow's kind of creation myth. Um, even though the industry is much reduced from what it was in its heyday, it's still a big industry in Glasgow. I think it's the biggest, still the biggest manufacturing employer in the city. Um, so growing up, I was surrounded by you know industry, going to the ship launches on the Clyde and being very impressed by it all, building the airfix kits with uh my dad and grandda. Uh being fascinated by the city's history, going through all the books and stuff like that. So I you know, I I think I had a supportive upbringing, uh, and I think that helped mould me into the person I am today, someone who's got a deep pride in our city and also quite upset by a feeling of decline. Uh, because growing up, you know, my dad was made redundant from the shipyards. There was that feeling of pride in the community, pride in what they did, but also that feeling that it was under threat and that there was a looming sense of fear or decline. Uh, and you know, there's boarded up factories, boarded up shipyards, dereliction interspersed with you know what they were doing as well. So I I think that was a part of my childhood, you know, my dad losing his job, having to go and work elsewhere, barrowing furnace in Cumbria. I remember getting up as a kid and seeing them off in the morning before going to school, like at 5 a.m. before he was driving down to Cumbria. Um, remember like my mum having to leave her work in the bank to care for my gran who was dying, and then you know, being really short on money and you know, not having a sort of as good a Christmas as other kids in the class were having, and feeling that slight humiliation that I didn't get the best gifts that Christmas, you know, and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Is that why you want to make a difference? Is that part of why you want to make a difference now?

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Yeah, yeah. I do feel that it's really important to, you know, do what I can to realise the community's potential, you know, that we should have bread, certainly, that people should have a good income and they should feel secure, but also that we should have roses as well, we should have a nice community, a place that people feel proud of, um, and that they you know, we have those nice things in the community. Often, I mean one of my political opponents has recently been accusing me of frivolity because I'm going around talking about old buildings and heritage and not talking about you know poverty. And I'm like, well, they're not mutually exclusive issues, actually. I think the working class should have nice parks and nice architecture in their communities, and actually that's all part of a of a sort of virtuous cycle of improvement for our community that we're deserving of that, yeah. And I and I've always had a passion for those issues, and I just I'm a I'm a straightforward person who wants to be myself in politics, so I'm just and actually what I've found is by doing that people really recognize it. I often get stopped in the street or get emails from people saying, I'm really appreciate that you take an interest in this issue because it's often things it's often an issue in politics is overlooked. You know, we're that busy trying to tick boxes about certain things that the quality of the built environment of the city is often overlooked. Um, so to take an interest in that is important.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

And I guess if the building's not preserved and it's destroyed, we can't get it back.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Yeah, and there's a palpable sense of grief. I mean, we saw the outpouring of distress about the recent fire as you mentioned, and I think that had a real ripple effect. You know, it wasn't just immediate businesses affected, so you know what I was involved in was trying to make sure there was immediate financial support for traders who'd lost their livelihoods. Often they were so, you know, um tight in terms of margins that they were making, they didn't have insurance policies or uh, you know, elaborate sort of protections. So they were essentially left in the clothes they were standing and they didn't have a business anymore. Um, but what was really cool was to see how quickly Glasgow rallied around them. You know, the people were offering them alternative premises, sharing, you know, barbers' chairs for like you know, hairdressers or salons that had been destroyed. Um, there was a guy who was made the wigs for RuPaul's drag race. Is that right? Yeah, you know, like as in a salon up in the in this building, you know, just lots of people sort of rallying around to you know to help um get people back on their feet, and um then the the conversation turned very quickly to well, how do we rebuild? How do we risk restore the building? Um, and that opened up a whole set of conversations about do we have the skills? What about the you know, do we do we promote traditional skills and construction? Maybe we need to train more people, and um that all comes back to a visit I was doing this morning, which was to Glasgow Kelvin College in Easter House talking about how we actually promote skills and um how we give young people a future. So I feel it's all bound up it's all tied, it's all tied together.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Just going back to your family for a moment, I just wondered what values did they embed with you? What what did they give to you that that you kind of have brought through into your working life?

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Um well, a sense of not getting above your station or a sense of arrogance, um, a sense of humility, um, and a sense of kind of service to others, I think, as well. I mean, my dad was in the trade unions um after he was made redundant from the shipyards, I ended up driving a taxi. Um, and my mum, you know, she gave up a lot to care for um my grand, you know, when she was in ill health. And um, you know, just I think it was a a nice um straightforward working class upbringing, and uh it wasn't poverty stricken or anything like that, but it you know, there was occasional periods of hardship. Um but I think a lot of families go through periods like that. Um, and they did a lot to to give me a stable and and and good upbringing, and uh you know, went to the local comprehensive school, you know, was a bit of a nerd when it came to politics and stuff like that, followed it.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Um you went to Glasgow University.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Yes, I was the first of my family to go to university. I guess at that time I was just talking that to that uh this issue at the college, and it was that thing, like if you didn't get to uni, you'd somehow maybe not done as well. And there was that sense that go to college was almost like a sort of sort of beat like a you're the B team going to college rather than which isn't really the case. No, and I think the revelation for me was when I started working in the shipyard um after I graduated, and the induction week was with the apprentices and the graduates together. And when we did the icebreakers at the start of the week, almost every apprentice had said, Yeah, I did like a first year at Strathclyde doing mechanical engineering, but I hated it as I really didn't get the technical uh textbook style of um approaching, like mathematics or whatever. But I'm really enjoying um the practical side of doing electric electrical apprenticeship. And the thing is, I'm getting sponsored now to go back to CalUNI to do um a being in electrical engineering, and because I'm doing it in the practical sense, I now get it, and I I'm doing really well in the course. So I think um that was a bit of an eye-opener for it. So it's kind of more about the positive destination rather than the journey, and the and the thing is like if you just go straight from Land Zen to John and Ropes in a single straight line, it's not a particularly interesting journey. But I think the most interesting people have taken a more meandering route to where they've got to, uh huh. Uh, and they've picked up a lot of wisdom on the way. And actually, it's important in some ways to have setbacks because you learn from them.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

And you went from the University of Glasgow into shipbuilding, as you can.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Yes, I joined the graduate scheme at B. I'd I got I was lucky enough to get an internship in the penultimate summer before my final year through Scottish Enterprise, it was called the Psalter programme. Okay, yeah, uh, and I get placed with B Systems, which was a happy coincidence because that's where my dad worked. Uh, and I really enjoyed the experience. I worked in like the sales department, so like we were working on trying to sell ships to other countries like Brazil. Wow. Uh, and I was like involved in this bid to sell um patrol boats to Brazil. Um, really, really fascinating experience. Um, and then went back to do my final year at uni, which I did all about shipbuilding and the economics of shipbuilding, and then I was lucky enough to get um onto the graduate program, and then that involved it was production engineering, it was called. So it was basically going round the shipyard and trying to map how all the materials flow through the ship the shipyard, um, looking at where we could invest in new modernisation, so whether we could put in a new machine tool or new buildings or new infrastructure or change the way we we build the ships to make it more competitive.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Does that give you a passion now for that industry?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, it's been a big part of my work in Parliament. So I set up a cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on shipbuilding.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Oh, did you?

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Um, and it's interesting because like a lot of the commentary in Scotland recently has been about the ferries uh scandal. Of course, and and my frustration has been well, are we learning anything from this or are we just going to moan about it? And and the idea of the cross-party group for me was like to try and actually get to the nubble what went wrong so we can improve, rather than just like wringing our hands about it and using it as a political sort of um you know cudgel. Um and I think that's been quite productive. So, you know, I've been heavily involved in trying to get the the Norway deal so we get new frigates getting built for Norway in Glasgow, um, and also trying to improve the facilities, so getting the big new covered shipbuilding hall in Govern, um, which is going to be such a transformation for shipbuilding. It's really, really unpleasant working outside in Glasgow in the middle of winter, yeah. Um, so for working conditions and productivity, it's a huge opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

What's your what's your hope with that cross-party group? Is that do you want to propel that industry forward?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah, I find well, I'm one of the few people that can speak with authority on it in Scottish Parliament because I'm the only person with a shipbuilding background. So I think playing to your strengths. I think that's why it's really important to have that diversity of backgrounds in Parliament. Um, you know, very often it's quite insular, so like it's just people have always worked in the political realm. Sure. Uh so trying to bring a broader perspective into the parliament is important. Um, and I actually think by doing that I I've I've achieved more respect. Um, you know, people when I have raise an issue about it, they do turn around and stop talking and listen to what I've got to say because I'm not trying to just make political mischief out of it, I'm trying to be constructive.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

And I suppose also there's a passion there, given your dad's history and yours, that it's not just about economic growth, it's it's bigger than that.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah, and I think there's something quite cool about I know the building something physical, yeah, building a ship. Uh, and there's a sense of culmination that everybody's building something together, and then there's like a visual end product which everyone takes pride in.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

And and is there also a hope from that that we will, as a nation, bring more contracts to Glasgow?

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Yeah, definitely. And it's been really cool to delve into the underlying issues with why we don't build ships to the same extent we used to, and a lot of it's financial. Um, so you know, we've had people come in from Germany to talk about what the Germans do to promote shipbuilding in their economy, um, and from Norway and from Finland and Spain. Uh, and one of the big issues has been financing, so patient finance of shipbuilding projects, and that's exactly what went wrong at Ferguson's. So when you get behind it, it's actually follow the money, okay, is the is the key lesson. Um, other countries, state investment banks, provide 100% front funding for projects, and then the shipyard's got all the money it needs to buy the buy the materials, pay the labour force in a timely manner, yep, and they can patiently build the ship. Whereas Ferguson's because they didn't have the cash in the bank to start building the ship, they were only able to get money in once they triggered milestone payments. So, you know, putting up a certain amount of steel work triggered a payment, but they didn't have the design ready, so they were chasing a half-designed ship to build it to get the money to pay the wages. So it militated against efficient production.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

I mean, there was something when we were growing up, there was always something in terms of pride about cloud built ships, you know, and I think as you said, we all had an uncle or a grandfather involved in that industry. Can can that come back?

SPEAKER_02 21:22

I think so, um, but not in probably not to the extent that it was where we were building more ships than the whole of Germany or something like that. Today, 80% of the world ships are built in China or South Korea. Um, so it's a huge market in the Far East, and they've really cornered it and they've been very determined to do that with an industrial strategy, um, where their government provides ex extensive subsidies to support their industry. I think where we can benefit is in specialization. So rather than going for the mass production model, we can go for the kind of McLaren, Bentley, Rolls Royce, which is which is very niche specialist vessels. Where there's a high level of technical skill needed.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

So I I think we can get there. We'll do it with the Navy ships, but then how do we develop more on the commercial shipbuilding side? Huge opportunities with offshore wind, all the service vessels needed for that. There's a lot of specialist research ships and stuff needed. So there is a healthy market out there for it. We just need to go out and win it. And a lot of it is getting the basics right. So getting the financing in place, getting the infrastructure correct, getting the skills in place. There's huge demand there for skills, but because we've spent so long put pushing our young people to universities rather than technical trades, we've actually got like a situation where a lot of this well, a lot of the skills are really old. So like in the shipyard, when I joined, there was lots of people in their like 50s and 60s, and lots of people in their 20s, and not many people in between because the shipyard has stopped recruiting for so long because of precarious workflow. Um, so the big challenge is actually how do you train a new generation of workers to come through? We're actually relying really heavily in the shipbuilding industry in Scotland right now on like um contract labour from places like Malaysia because we can't get the skills locally, but we've got huge amounts of young people unemployed or not in effective training programs, and you just say, how on earth can we allow this amount of wasted human potential to happen where like half the working age population of Easterhouse is is is not doing any meaningful employment? I mean, that maybe some people who are generally like sick and unable to work, but I can't imagine that's half the population of Easterhouse, you know. So, how do we support people into these opportunities, which then provide them with prosperity and is the very roots of solving poverty, you know? So it's trying to do things in a joint-up way.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I love that. How do you get from shipbuilding to politics though?

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Um well, it's always been a quite a political industry in Glasgow, um, from the Red Clyde side through to the upperclyde shipbuilders working with Jimmy Reed.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

And uh be no pevian, exactly no pevian, uh, and uh saving the industry at that time, and then I think um it's always been a heavily unionised workforce, so the trade unions, particularly Unite and GMB, are very dense in the shipyards. They it was probably a big factor for me in getting more political was the referendum in 2014 on independence, where shipbuilding became a big focus because it was would there be navy contracts after independence? Would there be the same industry? Sure. Um, and that kind of propelled me to the forefront. I ended up on stage with Gordon Brown, uh the former Prime Minister on the eve of the referendum, talking about why shipbuilding was really important and why I was against independence uh because of that, uh having worked in the yards, and because the campaign for independence hadn't really provided a convincing answer to the future of that industry. So, yeah, it was quite a quite an eye-opening experience at that point as a youngster.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Are you laid by what you're doing there in terms of trying to bring that infrastructure back and promote education and promote prosperity? It's really important to credit unions to have that.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Yeah. Just and there's a shipyard credit union as well. Oh, is that? Yeah, yeah. So that was that was all something the Fairfield Credit Union.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Is that something that's important to you in terms of weaving a credit union into a community?

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Absolutely. Um credit unions where I've encountered them in the community are a beacon of power for working class people because it's about the concentration and control of wealth. Um, so like community housing associations and credit unions are like a place which concentrates and empowers the community because it actually is a concentration of wealth and you can use that for the public good. Um, and I think too often communities are reduced to like begging for grant funding or there's a kind of debasing dependency model which we have. Um, and I think actually by pooling resources in the community and the way that the credit union model kind of promotes is really important to give true emancipation for working people.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

And you talked earlier, Paul, about the fact that you've worked hard as uh as a former MSP to help your constituents. One of the ways you've been helping the credit union movement is against the withdrawal of uh family protection policy, which was in effect a piece of funeral cover that some of our members had. And I wanted to ask you why was that an important factor for you to get involved in?

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Well, uh uh as so often happens, I usually get alerted to a problem by a constituent or a colleague. Sure. And in this case, it was one of our local councillors who had a credit union policy. Um, and she said that this is dreadful, you know, that they're cutting the funeral protection plans. What can you do to help? And then I got in touch with um John Lyons at the Red Drink Cartine Credit Union, who I've known well because they run a really successful non-referral food bank um for several years, and they are not just a credit union in that respect, they're a kind of community hub, yeah, which just is so much it's like an intangible value that they provide to the community. So, again, just connecting that network up, understanding the issue. Had a few people come to my surgery, you know, my advice surgery saying um, you know, this is devastating. In one case, uh, an elderly woman was talking about her terminally ill husband and how devastating this was going to be to her family's finances. And and tragically, she was saying, you know, he's in the hospice, but I'm praying he actually passes away before this plan expires, which I thought was just a grotesque dilemma to put a vulnerable person in. Um, it was callous and it was it was disgraceful um to see that happen. And the more that you read about it, the more disgusted you became and more agitated about it you became. So I was more than happy to collaborate with the you know the association that were coming together, the coalition, if you like, yes, in Scotland that were campaigning against this withdrawal. Um, and I think you know we have been quite effective at holding um Abkul and the insurance brokers and the insurance company CMutual uh and um the Swedish firm uh forgotten the name off the top of my head. Uh what was our name of it? Is it Fos? Um Made in Life in Life and Fossering Fostering, whatever the name is. Yeah, so made in life, C Mutual uh and Abkull to account on what's happened. And um I think we've got to a good place, certainly better than we were at the start, um, with the Financial Conduct Authority, working with the MPs and the House of Commons, working with the Treasury Minister. Um, we know what's happened in Ireland in terms of a settlement, so it's trying to like benchmark ourselves against that. Um so I think we're in a good place, but it's just a shame that we have to expend energy fighting injustice when people could just do what they're you know, honour their commitments in the first place and work in an ethical manner. Oh no, for sure. And it was surprising, you know, given how um ethics are at the heart of what the credit human movement is to see that exploitation happen. Um but I'm pleased that we've been able to work effectively to try and counter it.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

And hopefully, hopefully there will be some positive outcomes in the in the weeks ahead.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Fingers crossed, it sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

We're we're hopeful and thank you for all your support with it. Absolutely. In the weeks ahead, you're facing an election. I I wanted to ask you what does that feel like in terms of if if you if you're not successful, what would that mean for you? What would you have to do?

SPEAKER_02 29:30

I've been through it before, so in a way I'm not that scared of it. Um, but I know enough about how unpleasant it is to know that it's not nice. Um all you can do is you know present yourself to the electorate, talk about your track record. I tend to run my own race, I don't really like attacking opponents. Okay, I like to just present what I've done for the community. Um, so a lot of what I'm doing locally is talking about all the achievements I've done, whether it's securing millions of pounds of grant funding to repair the Springburn Winter Gardens, which has been a long-running campaign 13 years uh working on that, but it's been a symbol of everything that's declined in Springburn. So, actually, just finally turning a corner on that is a huge deal. Um, getting £20 million in Pride and Place funding for the Springburn Sight Hill Rob Royston area has been huge as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

And is that for regeneration?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah, so that's a capital fund for regeneration, which is an unprecedented amount of investment for the area. And uh over the next 10 years, we're going to see some massive legacies coming from that. And it won't just be 20 million pounds, though. Once you put in match funding and lever and other funds, it's going to be a huge investment opportunity for the area. So I feel like I've put a shift in, I've helped over 30,000 people in various different ways.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

What are the hopes from that that big pool of funding? Is it is it housing?

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Is it um it's all of those things? It's it's transport, housing, streets, um, you know, shopfronts, uh town centres, it's all of the physical improvements we would like to see in our community. Okay. So it it's governed by a board that will be set up in the next few months. Uh, so it's independently handled of the politicians. So it's not just my personal preferences, though I've certainly got projects in mind, and I would you know work with others to try and promote those. Um, but it's essentially trying to build community consensus around improvements that have been long awaited. So recently we did a community place plan um for Springburn Ballorn at Burmullock, for example, in the north of Glasgow, um, and that really generated all these really good ideas about what needs to happen and it prioritised a lot of ideas for improvements. So I think that gives us a good starter for 10. But I think when we talk about alienation from politics and a sense that politics doesn't serve or meet the needs of people, then that's a very tangible example of how you can make a positive change. Um, that the community can be involved in this board, that everyone's going to have their say, that we've got money, it's not just a fancy report or some drawings on a map that never happened. Yes, we've actually got the capital in hand to do something about it.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

And actually just having that reservoir of capital is a huge bargaining chip to go to other funders and say, right, well, if you put in half the money, we can guarantee another half of the money. And that's huge when it comes to like lottery funding or other regeneration funds out there.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

That you're hopeful that will make a that will make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Definitely. I'm really, really excited about it. Spent so long just impotently advocating in parliament for ideas and you get kind of fobbed off. Uh, but to finally have money gives power. And I think that's exactly it goes back to the point about credit unions, you know, having the money, uh, concentrating wealth in the community does create power and you can physically change things as a result.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

And and hopefully onwards from that prosperity for for all.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Yeah. Maybe we should set up a credit union as part of the uh as part of the pride and police.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yes, let's do it, let's do that for sure. Um I I also wanted to ask you in terms of our membership, we we have members across the UK and Northern Ireland. A couple of the things that are really important to our members just now is the economy, and we feel like we don't have enough money. Yeah. And also we're seeing that conflict in the Middle East, and it's raising our costs in terms of fuel, but also just the concern for global security, it feels the world feels kind of frightening just now. And I I just wondered what you what are your thoughts on those those kind of key items?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Well, I think it reveals how interdependent we are. I think as an island nation where you can often feel insulated from the rest of the world or a sense that we're a part of other parts of the world and we're independent. Um, but in reality, we're hugely exposed to global events. You know, 80% of Britain's trade is done by sea. Um, there's already discussions about whether jet fuel shortages will affect people's summer holidays. You know, these key pinch points, like the Straits of Hormuz, uh the Malika Straits, um, can really, really hinder the whole flow of global trade. We saw that when that um container ship gets stuck in the Suez Canal. Of course. Um just how finely balanced the whole system of global trade can be, um, just in time delivery to factories and production lines are really important. So to see that disrupted by a political upheaval, whether it's been the war in Ukraine, which has affected global grain shortages, because we know Ukraine is a massive producer of crops for the world, um, whether it's the oil supplies from the Middle East, um, energy security and the ripple effects that's caused in prices and an inflation and the sense of um you know prosperity declining, huge issue. Uh, and the worry is that you know people react to that by seeking populist answers, simple solutions to complex problems, yeah. And that you know, um beguiling or plausible um demagogues, as you would call them, you know, false prophets uh reap the benefits of that, and we just end up in an even worse situation. Um, you know, one of the big issues obviously is immigration uh and people's sense of unfairness about the immigration system. And I I think that's been a real dilemma in this election that people, you know, working class communities feel that they're not getting or there's preferential treatment, and it's trying to actually tackle those misinformation um sort of peddlers where you're saying, well, no, they're really not. Like the the costs of the immigration system come from the fact we ban people from working, uh that we force them into destitution, and then they're effectively homeless if they get a decision on their refugee application and because they're destitute and they're stand start starting from zero in uh zero income. Um so maybe if we support people to work, support people into training programs that uh reflect the skills needs of our community, that reflect our declining working age population. Um, we could all mutually stand to benefit from that. Um, I mean there's an interesting example just when I've been covering dentistry in the Scottish Parliament in recent months and uh like the dentist issues, huge shortages of dentists. But we have we have dozens of dentists cycling around delivering pizza in Glasgow right now because they haven't they're they're migrants, but they haven't been able to do the dental conversion course because of the three-year waiting list. You know, so we've got a problem in our communities which is a shortage of dentists. We've got people in the community with the skills, but we're not providing them with the mechanism to translate. Yeah, joining that up. So it's just another example of like the social contract we need, which is work at the heart of human dignity, work at the heart of prosperity, give people the chance to prove themselves and be part of our team. And I think people are I think most right-thinking British people are just saying we just want a fair set of ground rules. Yeah, you come into our country, you respect our laws, you you aim to learn our language and and and promote you know cohesion in the community. And that's actually what most people are doing who are coming into our country, they want to be active citizens, they've they see it as a journey of redemption. Uh they want to be part of a church or a local community group, they want to give something back, they're grateful for the for the opportunity. Um, why deny that in a an act of spite? Um, certainly if people abuse our hospitality or abuse our laws, then they have to be held accountable for that. And I think as long as we are clear about those ground rules, most people are are are um happy to go along with that. Um so I think in Scotland certainly we you know have a massive shortage of skills, we have a relatively stagnant declining population. Um, we're gonna have a much greater population of retired older people needing support and smaller and smaller working age population. So we need to address those realities, and then the vicious cycle is housing costs are more expensive, it's harder to build housing because it's too expensive. A shortage of construction skills, uh, childcare costs are too expensive. It's harder for young people, millennials, Gen Z to settle down and have children. Um, you've got more and more young people uh living with their parents into their 30s. Um, you know, so we're in a vicious cycle right now. How do we break that? And how do we have those honest conversations about the trade-offs needed?

SPEAKER_00 37:57

And is that a passion for you for going forward, assuming you're successful?

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Yeah, I mean, I I I I just think um there's so many of these complex issues in society, and we're not very good in our political discourse about unpacking them in a reasonable way and actually just talking through all the different strands that are involved. And there are difficult trade-offs at times, but just being honest with people about the nature of what's going on and the complexity of it. And what I think once you you don't treat people like idiots, and you're you know, people you know, working class people are very sophisticated and very knowledgeable and very canny. Uh, and to patronize them in the way which some populists do, I think is deeply offensive. Uh, and if we actually just talk about the nature of these complexities, some of the difficulties we'll have a much more cohesive society.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

I think one thing that credit unions are hoping for is that we're much better utilised by the government, by other agencies, um, because we have a power in the community, as you spoke to, um, in terms of not just that asset size, but the fact we can pull so many strands together.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Definitely it's one of the things I'm most proud of in the last parliament uh was the community wealth building bill, which was a government bill which wasn't nearly as ambitious as I'd hoped it would be, but haggling with amendments in the committee, I did manage to get credit unions onto the bill as a key example of what local organisations should be doing or local authorities should be doing doing these community wealth building plans that credit unions should be at the heart of it. So I was quite pleased that we managed to get that through.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

No, and we we can we can make a difference. What about for you, Paul, as an individual? What's your hopes for the future? What's your ambitions for the future? What do you have on your mind?

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Well, there's only 129 people in Scotland that get to be members of the Scottish Parliament. Is that right? Uh you know, so it's a rare and unique opportunity, really, um, for someone, particularly relatively young as I am still uh in politics. So I think in a way, um, it's having this you know gratefulness of the opportunity to serve in that capacity and just to be useful. Um, I don't really operate with a kind of five-year plan or some sort of grandiose sense of culmination. So I always think the human condition is you're never going to be satisfied. If you reach the summit, there's always going to be then a sense of grief that you've reached it almost. Remember feeling that when I graduated, it was almost like a sadness. You're like, oh, is that it? And it's like almost the wind spills from your cells and you feel a wee bit sad about it. And it's like now what? Uh so I always think it's it's not a particularly healthy way to approach things. Um, I think it's much more beneficial to have practical things to achieve um rather than a sense of self-fulfilment for the sake of it. Um, you get self-fulfillment from solving problems from fixing things, whether it's a glasshouse in Springbourne or whether it's the funeral protection plans, whether it's you know getting um a local constituent life-saving surgery. Um, you know, there's a sense of just rolling through issues and solving them, um, problem solving. It's a bit like whack-a-mole, you know, the things pop up, you react, you try and deal with them. Um, it's hard to envisage. I didn't know, you know, I didn't expect um the funeral protection plan thing to be an issue two years ago. I've never seen that one on my horizon, but uh we get stuck in. I think it's just having a mindset and an approach that if someone comes with an issue, you solve it. Same with the local housing association and Denniston Community Housing Association. Um, it was a whistleblower who came to me and said, This is really bad. Like there's a whole group of people trying to push this into a merger with a massive national housing group. It's going to strip the assets out of the community's ownership. How do we stop this? Juggernaut. Um, and it's just like, right, let's start going around all the clauses with letters and putting letters through the doors, and we managed to turn it from being supported by the community because they'd been sort of dazzled by a rent freeze saying actually going to lose like over 100 million pounds of assets from your community, let's resist this to turning it over and actually fighting back and keeping the housing association and community control in Denist. And that was a huge achievement. So it's just things like that. Like, I just enjoy trying to help people sort of fix a problem, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

You said at the start though, that it's not it's not a normal job. You I guess you could work 24-7 with it.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yeah, that's the it's your your idea is rich but time poor. That's the challenge and the curse in a way of politics because there's an insatiable demand. I don't sleep very much like that's the issue. You know, I'm kind of uh lucky if I get five hours of sleep a night sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I guess we'll have members that will say their particular candidate or their MP, they might feel like they're not being served. Yeah. They're not getting that average that you're putting into it. So how do you balance that? What do do you have a life? Do you uh do you have downtime?

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Uh it's kind of all consuming, I'm not gonna lie, but a lot of my personal interests uh align with my uh with my uh political activity. So whether it's heritage, I'm on the board of the City Heritage Trust, I'm uh uh set up the Winter Gardeners Trust in Springbourne. I'm really interested in like transport. I'm involved with the Glasgow Vintage Vehicle Trust, which preserves all buses. Okay. Uh I'm really interested in shipbuilding. Uh you know, I have like a collection of model ships, uh, you know, so like I I guess I'm a bit of a nerd like that. You know, I I kind of tend to weave my uh hobbies, if you like, into my professional activity. I'm not bad. But I'm lucky enough that people actually value that.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

What about regular items like sport, TV?

SPEAKER_02 43:30

I try to run as much as I can, so that's uh usually a good opportunity for me. I don't watch television as much as I should. Uh I try to catch the odd documentary or something that I'm interested in. Um sport, nah, not really, you know, like in that sense that like team sports or anything like that, not really. I occasionally get to catch a football or rugby match. Uh, but that's about it. Um I have to say, yeah, it does come at a big price. Uh you know, it's all consuming. And I at the kind of age where a lot of my friends are settling down, they're married, they've got children, and you'd Notice a big drop-off and contact, you know. So I have a kind of Sunday ritual where my oldest friend uh we always go out for dinner. Oh nice. Uh so I try and like make that an anchor in my week where we always go out on a Sunday and just catch up on what's happening, and you get some personal time. Yeah, well he works in um he's a geologist, so he works in like doing uh site investigations and like drilling borehores and stuff like that for construction projects. But so it's a very different type of job um to what I do. Um so I do try and keep that as a kind of ritual in the diary. Um, but beyond that, yeah, it's all consuming. You know, you're always checking your inbox, you're always oh god, what's happening next? Um you can feel perpetually agitated about things, yeah, and always thinking, oh, I've not done that, or I need to get back to that person. They're gonna be annoyed I didn't respond quick enough. I think I've got about two hundred I've still got about two hundred unread emails.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

It does sound full-on, but I think I think our members will appreciate hearing that that they're they are they are being given the service.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

I would say our political discourse is very jaded and very cynical, and I think it's really unfair in a lot of ways, because I think most politicians that I've encountered of all parties are genuinely there to try and make a positive difference. They're not there. It's not if you're wanting to do a self-serving job, I would think of easier ways to do that than working in politics because you're constantly exposed, you're constantly under scrutiny, uh and I and I think actually most people are doing it in a way which is um out of a spirit of public service. Some are better than others, I'll admit. Um, others have other issues, they may have caring responsibilities, they may have child child care. I'm I'm single, I don't have children, so I guess I can devote a lot more time to it. Sure. You know, um, whereas others might have other compromises they have to make in their lives. Um, and if we're talking about opening politics up to a wider and more diverse group of people, you know, I don't think you can be too harsh on folk, uh, you know, like to say, oh, he's not done as much as that person. Well, there might be reasonable grounds for that, you know. If I've just had a bunch of people, including government ministers, leave politics because they're like, well, I'd never see my children, uh, it's it's all consuming. Um, maybe it's necessary, and I suppose lots of jobs are like that. You know, if you're a surgeon or something, you can't just drop the scalpel at five o'clock and walk out of the operating theatre. You know, there's a lot of jobs that are very, very demanding. If you're in the military, you know, you can be away in months at a time or whatever, you know. So I guess there's an element of sacrifice, there's an element of honesty about how demanding the job really is. Um, but on the other hand, maybe we should cut our politicians some slack.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

And you're going for it again. I know.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Well, they say well, maybe I'm subcurrent for it in many ways, but I don't derive a lot of satisfaction from the job. I guess it's a big part of my identity. Um, I suppose it comes with a lot of um you know autonomy as well, because you're kind of allowed to pursue issues that you're passionate about, which I find quite satisfying that you're not kind of chained to a desk doing what other people instruct you to do sometimes, sometimes the party tells you what to do right now. But but um, but I enjoy that liberation if you like. I enjoy I'm quite dynamic in that sense that I enjoy cutting about doing lots of different things, and helping others, yeah. I I get a lot of fulfilment from it, I suppose. I can't envision myself doing anything else, really. Um, I have interests certainly, but I do enjoy the fact that you're able to just be responsive and able to express your own interests, and they do reflect the public interest in many ways.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

It's been really fascinating talking to you, Paul. To to end our conversation, I have some questions here from the team. I haven't I haven't seen them, so these are new to me. Some of them might be about life, uh some of them, some of them about your role. Shall we go for it?

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

This is a really great question, it's an awesome question actually. What gives you optimism about Scotland's future right now?

SPEAKER_02 47:53

What gives me optimism just how engaged and public spirited people in Scotland actually are. Um you know, I'll take the example of the Reedvale Housing Association. Um it was women in the community who fought that campaign successfully, and I just provided a little bit of direction and organizational support, but it was their passion that drove the campaign to success and has kept 900 tenement flats and deniston and community ownership. That's a hundred million plus pounds worth of community ownership and uh assets. Um just seeing that happen and seeing the joy on their faces when they realized they didn't have any expectation of their own worth or capacity before it, and then they got the achievement that everybody dismissed, you know, all the institutions were like, oh, shame about Reedvale, it would have been nice to have saved it, but it's a goner, you know, and they didn't take no for an answer and actually fought back and won it. And it was really cool at that night the special general meeting when they won the vote and you saw the joy on their faces that they'd achieved it. And it was good to see working class people feel that power, you know. Um, and I and I think that's just one example of like they didn't have to bother, you know, or they could have been like, oh, take the five-year rent freeze, that sounds great, and we'll get free internet. You know, there was a kind of like it wasn't about their selfish material um opportunity, it was about the wider community's legacy. Sure. It was really emotional, you know, and I if if it's just a little s microcosm of what could be done in Scotland, you know, with the right sort of organization, the right institutional support, it is it bodes well for the future.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Cool. What is the biggest challenge facing the city of Glasgow at the moment?

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Uh the biggest challenge I would say roadworks is well, roadworks are maybe a symptom of it. It's it's a legacy of austerity. Okay. Uh, you know, so the city of Glasgow has lost cumulatively over a billion pounds out of its budget, um, and that's been a huge ripple effect, you know, whether it is the condition of our streets, huge issues with the quality of the streets, um, the local parks falling into dilapidation, public realm just feeling in decline. I think people, if you grew up in Glasgow in the 90s and the early 2000s, like I did, there was always that sense that the city was getting better every year, and there was like the next big thing to look forward to, whether it was uh you know the city of architecture, the Commonwealth Games, there was always these big milestones. And although the city is kind of stepping in at short notice to keep the Commonwealth Games going this summer because Australia pulled out, it doesn't have the same sense of anticipation and and and the same sense of excitement that it did in 2014 where it felt like a big organised project towards a big milestone for the city. Um, I think people just feel we're not putting our best foot forward right now, and I think that's a consequence of over a decade of cuts to Glasgow. Um the city's got big long-term issues, so it's it used to have a million people living in it, it's still only got around 600,000 living in it now. So it's had the biggest population decline of any European city. Um, so there's a big issue to grow the city's population to fill up all the dirt than vacant ground. For example, in the city centre, there's enough um empty floor space to fill one and a half empire state buildings. Oh my goodness. You know, uh so it's a huge latent potential in Glasgow. We've got a housing crisis with 9,000 people on our homeless register, tens of thousands more waiting on housing waiting lists for housing associations, um, but our house building has declined. So we need to join the dots again. You know, skills, unlocking sites, getting capital in place, um, supporting families to have their own home, to recognise the damage that is caused by children in particular being homeless, uh, and sofa surfing or living in temporary accommodation, and the humiliation that can cause, the lifelong damage it can cause. How do we build cohesive communities where people can do well, want to maybe buy their home, but don't have to then migrate out of their community? They can stay in the working-class neighborhood that they grew up in. Um, how do we balance all that? I think Glasgow's a city that refused to die despite the huge damage that was caused to it through deindustrialization and misguided urban planning changes through the 60s, 70s, 80s. Um, it's growing again, but it's not growing as fast as other cities like Manchester. We need to improve our transport system, we need to bring the buses back under public control, we need to fix our architectural heritage. There's over 150 buildings at risk in Glasgow that are of architectural value. Um, yeah, there's a lot to do.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

And I guess what remains is that power of the people and the the slogan of people make Glasgow.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Yeah, it's true. Um, you know, it's a city that sometimes have a love-hate relationship with itself, uh, that people can be deeply frustrated by Glasgow, um, but they still have an enduring love for the city. I mean, I still think it's one of the it is the best built city in Britain outside of like London, uh, and it has lots of advantages. Um, it's a really you know dense city, it's got great tenements, it's got really good independent neighbourhoods. Uh, you know, Ruligland, though Rugglonians uh would be loath to describe themselves as Glaswegians, and I think Rulligland does have a tense relationship with Glasgow. Uh the Royal Borough celebrating its 900th anniversary. Glasgow just celebrated its 350th anniversary. Um, you know, as part of the Glasgow region, um, it's important that we all work together to realise our potential, like Greater Manchester has. Um, you know, there's discussions about whether we should have a Metro Mayor uh like Manchester. Uh, maybe that could be the kind of the convening power we need to really punch up our weight again. Um, but whatever happens, I think there's a lot of really good people in Glasgow who have got the city's best interests in mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Uh last few questions. What's something people might be surprised to learn about you outside of politics?

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Might be surprised to learn about me outside of politics. Uh that's an interesting question. I'm trying to think. Um, I don't know. Maybe my maybe my interest in shipbuilding, but I guess that's known. Uh but I have a I have a I have a I have a model boat collection. So I just acquired, I I I have managed to acquire a remote control model of HMS Hood, which I'm really looking forward to get once once the election, I'm really looking forward to finally testing on uh a local pond to see if it works. So uh I mean that's maybe that's a sad admission. Really interested in model railways as well. I made a pilgrimage to Hamburg to see the biggest model railway in the world, uh miniature Wonderland. Um also really interested in aviation. Um, so I think if I hadn't become a politician, I would have really liked to have trained to be a pilot.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 54:44

Yeah, I did do some lessons, but I never quite got my licence, so I need to uh maybe go back and try and do that at some point.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Took me a while to figure out what was interesting enough to say. Uh I always hate those icebreaker questions. Like, what do you what's of interest uh to others? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

This is another tricky question in that regard, right? But it's a really good question. What does a perfect day look like for you?

SPEAKER_02 55:10

A perfect day.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

I think that depends on context. I think it allows non-work things as well.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Um I guess just actually finding to find a day off to do something fun with your friends. What would you do? It's so rare. Um, I really enjoy going hill walking and I don't do enough of it. Um, and I think I used to do lots of it when I was at uni and when I was in the army reserves, um, and uh I I I miss going out in the countryside and being able to get away from things. I always feel like I'm chained to my phone, or there's always something I need to be like ready to respond to. Um so I think just having that sheer liberation of being away from it all would be quite nice.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

And what would you do alongside that? Would you look what's what does good look like? Going out for something to eat?

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Yeah, thoroughly enjoy going out to eat, catching up with friends, seeing my mum, uh, you know, uh anything like that is really, really enjoyable. Um and going to the cinema, just hanging out, even to be honest with you, just catching up on sleep can be can be bliss. I know it sounds a bit lame, but having a lie in is nice as well, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Having sometimes we're allowed, we're allowed. Yeah. Final question, and it's a really good one to end on. What has been the proudest moment of your career so far? It's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

It is a really good question, and there's a couple. Uh you know, there's a few, whether it's my work on drug-related deaths and getting the pilot overdose prevention um operational in Glasgow, um, Reed Vale was a huge moment as I described in some detail. Um, that was brilliant. Um, even small ones, like uh well say small, but big for individuals, like it's life-changing for that person. So making a nuisance of myself to the health board and the health minister recently about um a young six-year-old girl uh in Rob Royston who was facing weeks of she was weeks away from death uh and she was needing a heart transplant. Uh, but the only place in the UK that does heart transplant for children is in Newcastle in London, Great Ormond Street in London. Um, and managing to get, after a lot of persistence, her airlifted from Glasgow to London to get her life-saving heart transplant. You know, that was genuinely one of the most moving things to have happened, just realizing actually, although it was done under a lot of protest and you know, people saying it it wouldn't it wouldn't be worthwhile, it happened, you know. Um there's also a case I've had with um young asylum seeker boy. Uh he his mother died very suddenly, leaving him an orphan, and he was facing deportation to a country and didn't know anything about because he was just an infant when he arrived in Scotland. And to see the terror on this little boy's face about the prospect of being taken from his friends at school and disappeared to this country where he's like a kind of relative, uh you know, grandfather or somebody lived, but he didn't know anything about this guy. Um, to then him being allowed to stay in the country. I asked the Prime Minister's question about it, and uh the Prime Minister and Home Secretary, even though they were conservative at the time, intervened and he was allowed to stay in Glasgow. Now he's doing well, he's at college and stuff, and he's grown up into like a sort of a great you know young man. Um, just to see the difference you can make in individual cases where it's life-changing um can be quite humbling. It's hard to fit it's hard to say for sure whether there's one outstanding one, but they're probably my top few.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

I think it's really interesting you've chosen those examples. Our credit union has a passion just now for making life more livable for others, and I think that's what you've been able to articulate really well in a really moving way.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

Yeah, and hopefully I can add the phone protection plans one to that list in the next few weeks.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Hopefully, we can get a result from that. Um, but Paul, it was a pleasure to speak to you. Good luck in the weeks ahead, and thank you for all you do and serving your community. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Cheers.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

Thanks for listening to the Money Made Human podcast. We're grateful to spend time with you and hope you enjoyed it. If you want to join a credit union, choose us with love. Until the next time, First Class Credit Union.