Dermot O'Neill – Chief Executive, Scottish League of Credit Unions (#20)

Dermot O’Neill is the Chief Executive of the Scottish League of Credit Unions (SLCU), a role he has held for the past 15 years. The SLCU supports 26 of Scotland’s remaining 72 credit unions, helping them to become and remain Compliant, Sustainable and Cooperative.

Dermot’s credit union journey began in 2002 when he was appointed General Manager of Taxi Trade Credit Union, where he spent eight years. He then moved into the community credit union sector as Development Manager at Ayrshire Credit Union, before taking up his current leadership role at the SLCU.

A passionate advocate for the credit union movement, Dermot is a champion of community finance and the people-focused values that underpin it. He believes strongly in the power of cooperative finance to strengthen communities and improve lives.

Outside of credit union life, Dermot prioritises family time, enjoys outdoor adventures and plays football; to the best of his (self-confessed) very average ability.

Key topics in this episode include:

• What the Scottish League of Credit Unions is and how it supports its members
• The six key pillars of the SLCU, including guidance, education, networking and representation
• Why it's important for credit unions to have this type of connection and support
• Dermot’s personal journey and leadership within the credit union movement
• How credit unions have adapted and evolved in recent years
• Dermot’s hopes for the future of the SLCU and the wider credit union sector

Join us for an engaging conversation with someone at the heart of Scotland’s credit union movement.

This episode was recorded in October 2025.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Money Made Human podcast. It celebrates at its heart the work of credit unions and their vital role in enriching our lives and communities. Brought to you by First Class Credit Union, each episode features insightful discussions revealing the meaningful impact that can be made through economic collaboration. Mostly it's a collection of compassionate conversations about navigating life and the individual journeys we take. We are delighted today to be joined by Derma O'Neill, the CEO of the Scottish League of Credit Unions. Welcome, Derma.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Thank you, Gail.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

So there's so much to talk to you about. But Derma, tell me first of all, what is the Scottish League of Credit Unions? What does that mean to anyone listening?

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Okay. So the Scottish League of Credit Unions, we're a trade association for Scotland's volunteer-led, community-focused credit unions. Our core purpose is really straightforward. It's to help our member credit unions become and remain compliant, sustainable, and cooperative. We do those three things. We help them become compliant by an online portal that we have for compliance. We help them become sustainable through a members' app that we have. And we help them become and remain cooperative through a series of forums that we operate. What makes us a wee bit different, I guess, in some respects, is that we don't impose a particular development model on our credit unions. It's up to each credit union to identify their own direction of travel, and then it's up to us to help them on their individual journeys.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

So why is it important for credit unions to have that connection, to have that support? You know, what does that give to them?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

I think first of all, it's important for credit unions to have their own direction of travel because if they don't know where they're going, they'll end up somewhere else. So it's our job not to lead them in a direction, but to help them understand which direction they want to go in. And we do that, I guess, by focusing on six key pillars. We provide guidance on legislation, regulation, operations. We help them with education in terms of creating training materials and programs and courses and learning sessions. Networking is a big part of what we do, probably the biggest part of what we do by connecting our credit unions and their people with each other. And then we move on to other things like facilitation, where there are lots of vendors across the credit union sector looking to sell things to credit unions, and we help connect those vendors with our credit unions and indeed help our credit unions find the right vendors for them. And I guess the last two things we do is around representation, whether that's to local authorities, whether that's to the Scottish government, whether that's the British government, or whether it's to the wider stakeholders within the UK. And then lastly, is around promotion. We try and help credit unions promote themselves either individually or as a collective. Does this shiny thing help our credit unions be better? And if it doesn't, we put it down, we focus on things that help our credit unions be the best version of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

As you know, first class credit union, we're a national organisation, so we serve across the United Kingdom and we we serve through employers. But one of the things that I think really stands out about your organisation is that you care passionately about Scottish communities and helping people within those communities. What's the passion there? Why why is that good for Scotland and good for the credit union community in Scotland?

SPEAKER_03 4:38

I guess I'll split that question into two parts. I guess my own individual passion comes from my own employment um record, where I was once employed by a multinational organization who provided the non-nursing services in Glasgow Royal Infirmary. And the business model that was in play there was around essentially the the NHS Trust paid the company I was employed by to deliver those services. And the lower the cost or the lower that the that company could provide those services, then the higher the profit margin was for that company. I would be in my early 20s at the time and without knowing why, just felt uncomfortable with that business model, that notion of profit extraction, particularly in a healthcare setting, just didn't feel right. Without being able to articulate why at the time, it just didn't feel right. So when I stumbled across credit unions and happened to get a job in an office that happened to be a credit union, it just clicked in my own personal world. It just felt like an environment that I was happy in, I was professionally satisfied in. And it just made me want to work harder. To the harder we work, the more everybody benefits. Profit wasn't even extracted by some faceless external stakeholder, but profit was being distributed back to the members, whether that's through dividends or whether that's through loan interest rebates. But it just felt like a nicer space to be in. And I guess that's where my motivation started from and continues. I really love the idea that credit unions that are primarily operated by volunteer board of directors, people who are not paid to do it, who do it because they want to do it, they want to help people in their communities. Now, whether that's geographic communities, as we've as we've described, or whether that's a community of people with the same employer or the same industry or the same faith or the same sports club, but just that that notion of people helping people just feels like a nice space to be involved in from a practitioner. From a Scottish League perspective, in terms of that passion, we have we support 26 of the remaining 72 credit unions that are that remain in Scotland. I say remain because at one point in Scotland there was over 150 credit unions, almost 160 credit unions, and now we've got less than half of that number. That doesn't mean that the passion is no longer there, but what it does mean is that the regulatory pressure and the the compliance pressure has become so much over the years that that ordinary citizens and local communities have struggled and continue to struggle to deliver member service but in a compliant way. So that's what gives us the passion now in the Scottish League, is to help those communities who still want to do things for themselves, is to try and make that, particularly the compliance and the regulation, make that a wee bit easier to go on. In terms of the actual communities themselves, it's a real basic tenant where ordinary people want to help other ordinary people with the financial services. It doesn't have to have fancy words, it's simply sometimes helping to pay for Santa, helping to pay for holidays, helping to smooth bumps in the road, and it just is a nice space to be in where you where ordinary people can improve the financial lives of other ordinary people. Financial services is what we do, but how we do it, I think, is what makes credit unions lovely and and interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

And special. Absolutely. Tell me, Dermot, tell me more about your journey to your chief executive role at Scottish League. You you mentioned there that you were working in a credit union and your your role and your job has kind of grown from there. What what's that journey been like for you?

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Yeah, sure. So I started with uh in terms of credit unions, I started with the Glasgow Taxi Drivers Credit Union. I was there for I think seven or eight years, loved my time there, a really interesting uh bunch of characters. I think it's fair to say. Um, Glasgow, Glaswegian taxi drivers are in themselves a legend as a group. So I had a great podcast. I met some real characters. Um, lots of stories would not be suitable for a farm podcast, but nonetheless, it was really interesting time because what I also oversaw was even a change in the Glasgow taxi trade from old school white middle-aged Glaswegian men, uh, and then that whole trade just changing and and and changing over the piece. Um, from Glasgow Taxi Drivers Credit Union, I moved to Ayrshire Credit Union for a few years, uh, which was really important for me, although not not necessarily aware at the time how important it was. But I moved from an employer-based credit union in terms of the an industrial-based credit union in terms of taxi drivers, and I moved to, for the first time, a community credit union setting where really I was fully exposed to what it meant to ordinary people in the street to be have access to ethical financial services. Now, sometimes that was for nice aspirational credit, as I've mentioned, for holiday and for for nice purchases, but often it was also exposure to people that for some people there was too much month left at the end of the money. And it was important for the credit union to be there when ordinary people needed a wee handout or a hand up at the end of the month.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

And what what how how did you end up with or at the Scottish League? How did that develop?

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Yeah, it was interesting. So when I was in the post in Ayrshire, I was approached by a guy called Dr. Peter Goth, who was the chief exec of the Scottish League at that time. And Dr. Peter Goth was a Canadian academic who I who had interviewed myself and other credit union people during a previous role that he had performed, looking at what what worked in credit unions in other parts of the world, and his obvious interest was supposed from Canada, and whether the federated network or the federated model that's in place in Canada could that work in Scotland. Peter and I really got on uh from from different perspectives, and it was actually Peter that reached out to me, it was he when he was leaving the job with the Scottish League to say, look, I think your enthusiasm for credit unions would be really well served in this particular role. The Scottish League, I guess to give you some context, was formed in 1993, so so way before my time, and it was formed because at that point it was felt that by for some Scottish community-focused volunteer-led credit unions, it felt that in the early 90s the focus was actually not on their best interests, but was actually on um English-based industrial type credit unions and that the support frameworks and the training and the environment was kind of leaning towards that ilk of credit union, and some Scottish community-focused credit unions felt a wee bit disconnected from that type of exposure and learning. So that's why the league was formed. But when you have an entity that's formed from a position of frustration or from a position of um of disconnection, sometimes that can lead to, I guess, a degree of militancy where you're always you're resisting the machine or you're pushing back. I think the phrase that was applied sometimes back then was too wee, too poor, too stupid. So I think that when I took the role with the Scottish League, which is now 15 years ago, it was about helping those credit unions not feel marginalized but feel as important as any other type of credit union. That in the same way that a member is not measured by the size of their wallet, credit unions shouldn't also be measured by the size of their membership. Whether a credit union serving 200 members or 20,000 members, those those members are individually important, and that credit union is individually important. So one of the things that's really important to me is to make sure that in the same way that members own the credit union, credit unions own the league. So it's really important that individual credit unions feel that they're part of something and belong to something. And you referenced earlier, Gail, that we've just finished for an annual conference, which uh which maybe explain why I sound a wee bit hoarse today. But one of the things that was said, and it's really stuck with me, it's quite unexpected. One of the things that was said to me was that it was a really great event, everybody felt really together. And one of the things that was said was that we, the league credit unions, have a shared vision. And what I thought about was that I don't think we have a shared vision. I think we've got a shared culture, and that's a culture of mutuality, of mutual respect. It's a culture where it doesn't matter if you're a tiny credit union or an enormous credit union. What matters is we've got a culture where people respect each other, we learn from each other. And again, that learning exchange can go both ways. It might be natural for small credit unions to learn operations and principles and processes from large credit unions, but similarly, large credit unions can learn from the humanity of small credit unions, can learn from what it feels like for ordinary people to try and deliver financial services to other ordinary people without the resources that might be available in large credit unions.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

We've just launched our campaign around money made human, and and to a large extent, that's dedicated to our membership and ensuring that they feel valued, but it's also to shine a light on great people in the credit union sector and to tell the stories of the people in the credit union sector because we want our membership to see who's around us, who we value, and I think that's in essence what you've just talked about that that everyone is valuable and everyone has a valuable role to play. And I'm really interested in what you said about the kind of humanity within it, and how does this how does the Scottish League recognize that that value in the individual and then the I guess just the whole concept of what a credit union is? How are you drawing out the the humanness of it?

SPEAKER_03 15:39

When I was the manager of Glasgow Tax Sur Divers Credit Union back at the start, whenever somebody joined the credit union, we would explain the process. Here is how you save, here is how you apply for credit, here is here is how this financial cooperative works. And I would always close by saying, and by the way, you're my boss. And they would kind of look at me to wonder, what do you mean by that? And I would say, well, every time you borrow money, you pay for the electricity. You the loan interest that you pay pays for the electricity, pays for the computers, pays for the paper, pays my wages. And the reason I would close that way was to make sure that when somebody joined, they saw themselves not as a customer, but as a member. And that our credit unions pay our wages. Our credit unions therefore need to recognise and feel that the league is here not as something separate from, but something connected to our credit unions. As I said at the start, it's not our role to lead, it's our role to be led. And ultimately, all we have is humanity, all we have is manners before professionalism. Um, let's be nice to each other, and then we can ideate, and then we can sophisticate, and then we can innovate, and then we can do other fancy words, but let's be decent people with each other first. And I think in the credit union sector as well, that credit unions in themselves nowadays share overlapping common bonds. Nowadays, I think there's 20, more than 20 credit unions in Glasgow alone, many of whom in theory serve the same people. But I think that's what makes credit unions lovely, is that an inherent appetite for collaboration, an inherent appetite to share resources, an inherent desire for credit unions to see other credit unions doing well. And I think that that's probably unique to not just to the credit union sector, but to the third sector, to the cooperative sector, to the sector where yes, we do financial services, but we're not necessarily competing with each other. So let's share best practice, let's share ideas. Because in Scotland, I think only around seven or eight percent of the population are a member of a credit union, so there's plenty of pie left for everybody else. So it allows us to innovate but also collaborate at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

On that point, we we want more people to choose us, choose credit unions as an option. To to anyone that might be listening to this that is not a member of a credit union, what what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_03 18:26

It's a really interesting question, Gail. I've got two I've got two boys, uh 23 and 22. And as part of a working family, we're an ideal case study for credit unions. We like to go on holiday in the summer, we've got Santa to pay for at Christmas time, so we have credit needs like every other family. But having two boys in their early 20s, they have a level of expectations around credit around financial services that that that that credit unions need to be able to provide, need to be able to service that need, need to have a digital ecosystem. And then the good thing is credit unions now do. Most credit unions now do. So since COVID times, it almost forced credit unions to digitize their services, it forced credit unions to have a digital ecosystem. So I think it's really important that when we look at credit unions, we're not necessarily looking at what credit unions used to be, but what they are now. So I guess on a more practical sense, what makes credit unions different, I guess, from banks is that first of all, any surplus goes back into the community, whether that's through dividend on savings or interest on savings or um interest rebates, but also that the loans can sometimes be less expensive than they would be elsewhere. One of the tenants that was introduced to me very early on was that banks will lend at the highest rate that the market will tolerate. Whereas credit unions should always endeavour to lend at the lowest possible rate that the business model can sustain. So credit unions should be an opportunity for people who want to help each other to get involved in the organization, to get involved in the ownership, to get involved in the democratic coordination of the credit union. And like I say, credit unions aren't just about what they can do for you, but what they can do for the community that you live in as well. Um I think I guess less tangibly, credit unions are also about fairness. I think they're also about dignity, I think they're also about financial well-being. And I think that sometimes those are values that in the financial services sector more widely, that those values would be deprioritized over profit maximization. So any financial services organization can lend money, but some choose not to because it's not that profitable, particularly in lower value sums. Credit unions are able to balance the lack of profitability in low value or short-term lending because they've got a blend of members. So for every £100 that they're lending to a member, they'll also have a member borrowing £5,000. And it's that balance of lending that allows credit unions to help people across the spectrum of borrowers, whether it's low value, short-term, or whether it's more aspirational, longer-term value.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

And I think and know that they'll be treated as a as a human during that journey with us.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Yeah, I mean, I guess there's some cliches like uh and a credit union member is more important than the size of a wallet. And it is just a series of words, but I think that credit unions don't just say it as a sales pitch, they believe it. They'll give as much attention to the wee wifey who comes in over the counter and deposits five pounds a week as they do to the more affluent members who are able to put deposit hundreds of pounds a month. And I think it's that's what makes credit unions lovely and special, and I think that's what draws people to credit unions. And it's certainly what keeps people with credit unions. We have some credit unions that have been operating for more than 40 years. And some of those credit unions have members that have been with them that entire time. That's not because they're held captive, that's because they wholly recognise that that local cooperative belongs to them. And that level of loyalty is what allows credit unions to operate sustainably. And sometimes, fingers crossed, hopefully avoid some of the bad debt and delinquency that might be more prevalent where more with more commercial lending. Because people who borrow from a credit union recognise that they're not just borrowing from a faceless corporation, they're borrowing from their neighbours, their colleagues, their peers, their friends. And that peer pressure is what, in theory, at least keeps credit unions' bad debts manageable and allows us to rinse and repeat the lending process.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

And Derma, in terms of just popping back to your journey to become CEO, you you just said that you had been with the Scottish League now for 15 years. And I know you have seen great transformation in that time. What what's been the things that have stood out the most that have transformed credit unions to where we are now? Is there anything specific you would say as a that was a big standout moment for you?

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Yeah, I I've just referenced it by coincidence. It was absolutely COVID. Um it was it was absolutely COVID. In fact, we talked about the good old days before COVID when life seemed simpler. And our role as a trade association was to be on the road of a day visiting credit unions and and and congratulating them for the work that they do and let's continue. And in March 2020, when when the front doors got locked and everybody had to then pivot, um, it really fundamentally changed not just what we are as a trade association in terms of how we support and how we educate and how we network, but it fundamentally changed the credit unions, at least those that were paying attention. Um and what I mean by that is credit unions then were forced to accept that they needed to do things fundamentally different if this if they wanted to remain relevant. If there if you couldn't engage with a credit union digitally, then it for at least for a period of time, then legally you weren't even able to engage physically. So it was really interesting for us to see that even some of our smaller credit unions almost overnight introduced digital improvements that had been talked about for many years but always deprioritised. So things like digital signatures, straight through processing, mobile apps, um, just reducing the friction that members that that had never really been considered friction before, but just a recognition that things needed to be easier and and quicker and smarter. And so it's been it was really exciting for us and continue to be exciting to see even very small credit unions been able to at least play a part in the delivery of financial services through through digital means. So that that's that's COVID was absolutely the biggest the biggest pivot that I've seen in the 15 years in this role.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

It's hard to believe it all happened now.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Yeah, and I guess it is, Gail. And I think where we're at now, I think the next biggest change will be the advent of CUSOS, the advent where credit unions will in future be able to engage in initiatives and access services that currently or previously wasn't financially practical or possible, or legislatively practical or possible, or even just operationally practical. So I guess I think that we would see Cusos as being the next big change of direction for credit unions, albeit we're only at the beginning of that journey just now.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Do you you know, Dermot, what really strikes me about talking to you is your passion for the sector, and I and I think below that passion you can sense the deep care you've got for it for members, for your members, just for the sector as a as a whole. And I just wondered what had informed what's informed your building of your own values? How how have you come out like this? You know, what has there been people along the way? Has there been organizations? What what's helped you to sustain your passion?

SPEAKER_03 26:43

I think um establish and then sustain. So I get I guess establish my own values are rooted in my own upbringing and my own life, and I think the the realization or the recognition that there's small margins in life sometimes, and I think that my own starting point was in a working-class housing scheme, not a housing estate as they're now called, but a housing scheme in the north of Glasgow. And whilst I was fortunate that my mum and dad made life choices that meant that our family's life path improved, I think there's a recognition that there was lots of other um people of my age, boys and girls, who's who weren't as fortunate to have parents that that changed the family's life path. And I've always been I've always been mindful, small margins in life, and it's always important to be grateful that um somebody else made choices that led to the betterment of your life. So that I guess that's the starting point, but having those values instilled in me, having that value of you can be anything you want to be, but you need to work really hard. So it's not something that's an active mindset, it's just something that's a by default mindset. So that's what gives me that passion. I'd like to think that I would apply the same passion, irrespective of my role, because of my starting point. But I guess it comes back to being grateful. I currently have a job that I love. Uh, it's a job that I hope to retire from, um, albeit another hopefully 20 years. We will. Yeah, yeah, I'll be my other way. But I have uh on a professional level, I am professionally satisfied. I've got a great team of people that we work with. I have zero career ambition. I am in my perfect job. If I was to pick one, this is what it would look like. So I think that the danger is you become complacent. So, on the contrary, I work hard every day to remind myself you've got the job that you you would have dreamed about. And I think that with that, with that honour needs to be matched with repaying the universe and the way that it's played out, and because you don't always carve out your own life path, although somebody recently said to me that that luck is the residue of effort, and I think there is something in that that the harder you work, the luckier you become. But I think it's important that you don't ever take anything for granted, especially in a member-owned organisation. We'll need to work, continue to work hard at making sure that our members feel that the Scottish League is doing something productive for them. And the minute you take your foot off the gas, then that that's when that goodwill starts can start to wane. So it's pedal to the metal and make sure that we continue to do the good job or the best job we can for the people who own the Scottish League.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Dermot, I have to say, I found it really moving there when you talked about your family and your upbringing and how they had made choices for the betterment of your life. And I wonder if there's a it's almost a perfect analogy for what credit unions do for families up and down the country. There'll be there'll be mums and dads and grandparents out there that are making choices about credit unions that might help their family propel forward. Yeah, I think it's such a moving thing you said there.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Again, I think that we in credit unions sometimes get so caught, and rightly so, get so caught up in the day-to-day operations and the member service that we sometimes forget to press pause and reflect on why do we exist, why we were formed. And I think that it's sometimes overlooked that the the first object of credit unions is the promotion of thrift. And even some people might argue that the notion of thrift is is old-fashioned and should be replaced with a more modern word. I would fundamentally disagree. I think that the notion of thrift is applicable today in 2025 as it was when it was authored in 1979, or to use a more Scottish phrase, you cut your cloth to fit. And I think that credit unions have got a real role to play in the promotion of thrift. How can we, what can we do to help our members' financial lives be as comf as be as comfortable as they can be, and also be as fun as they can be. I think sometimes we think about credit unions being there for the bumps in the road. We think about credit unions being there for people who may have access difficulty, sorry, difficult access and affordable credit elsewhere. And of course, there are those things. But credit unions are also should should be for aspirational credit. It should be developing a lifetime habit of saving, developing a lifetime habit of saving that then financially cushions people who might, in the absence of a credit union service, not be financially cushioned. And also in terms of aspirational credit, it's about helping credit helping members buy nice things and fun things and go on holidays and buy camper vans and and not just survive but thrive.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

For for sure. When when you were talking there about you love your job and and it's one that you you know you kind of want to work at for the next few years and you want to keep servicing your members, what what kind of things are on their minds just now? What what are their big ticket items? What are they worried about? What are they doing well at? And you know, I guess a second question is what does the future look like for them?

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah, I I think it I think it depends on the the type of credit union will determine will determine the answer. And what I mean by that is the larger the credit union, the more forward-looking they can be in terms of what do they want, what type of credit union do they aspire to be going forward. Um we were spent some time in Ireland recently or in the spring of this year, and I was surprised that each of the four credit unions that we visited, um, each all of the four were wholly of the opinion that they needed to extend beyond savings and loans into current account type services, checking account type services, debit card type services, because they felt that they needed to be in that space to compete with uh the Monzos and the Starling and the Klarner, the other providers. Our credit unions and not just leak credit unions but Scottish-based credit unions, even the larger ones, don't yet seem to be as actively moving towards that space. But as we will have seen over the years, often what happens in Ireland as being our closest credit union neighbour comes across the water to Scotland and the UK. So it'll be interesting to see whether Scottish-based or GB-based credit unions feel as minded to engage in that forward-looking debit card wraparound financial services space, or whether they think that they can remain in the savings and loan kind of a space. So that's probably the larger credit unions. The smaller of the credit union, they'll be looking over their shoulder, more so than looking down the path. Um, what one of our largest credit unions was formed, and the the second collection point they ran in the church hall was closed, and the second collection point that they ran 40 years ago was operated from the car boot of the treasurer at the time. That credit union's now got more than 14 million pounds in assets. And the director of that credit union said if he had known what it would have going to become, he would never have started it in the first place because of the the behemoth that it became. The reason I'm kind of, I guess, sharing that is the idea that a credit union can operate from a car book now uh in a in a church car park is is is is is is impossible. Um partly because it's it's too many in Scotland, but also because it just would not be tolerated from a compliance and best practice perspective, etc. And I think that the smaller the credit union, many of them are treading water, many of them rely on volunteers that are aging, many of them rely on the goodwill of their members that they are loyal to the credit union, but maybe not getting access to the services that they would expect in a 2025 world. And I think that's where Cusos can come back in, is if those smaller credit unions can replenish their personnel, then they will be able to deliver services that would have been impractical to develop and deploy as individual credit unions. And now that's really difficult to say, particularly to credit unions, because that's not a slight on any of the volunteers or staff that are currently there. It's simply a statement of reality that the weight of regulation and the weight of compliance requirements is arguably impossible for credit unions of a certain size to sustain. And it would be a shame if smaller credit unions were to wither because of the weight of regulation that meant they were so focused on ticking boxes and so focused on compliance that they weren't able to innovate and sophisticate and modernise their credit unions. So I guess to your question, it's back to that spectrum of credit unions and depending on where you are on that spectrum will depend on what the opportunities and risks are for each individual credit union. On a personal level, I think it will be a shame if what we end up with is a small number of regional credit unions. I think we will always, I think credit union membership will continue to grow. But I think what makes credit unions interesting and lovely and curious is we have such a range of flavours and sizes and shapes, and I think that's what makes the sector interesting. And it would be a shame if we lost that individuality and and it was replaced by or were left with simply 20 or so regional credit unions. It's hard to see where the individual personalities of those credit unions can still um can still um be demonstrated.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

That that sounded like money made human to me, Thermot. Thank you. Um just before we're going to be joined by your headquarters in a second, but just before, I wanted to ask you what's your what's your hopes for the future for you? What what would bring you joy?

SPEAKER_03 38:12

I I do you mean from from my own role? My own my own job?

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Your role, your role.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Um I would love to see more people becoming more members of credit unions. I would love to see younger people identify credit unions not just as a provision of financial services to their worlds, but I'd also like to see younger people see credit unions as a vehicle for social change. I'd like to see younger people see credit unions as community anchors. I'd love to see younger people actively engage in the democratic running of credit unions and become involved. And I and I think younger people is not it's not just related to age, but related to youthfulness. One of the youngest, um, one of the most youthful credit union people that I knew and know is a woman called Marie Coyle, who delivered um this the first training that I got in credit unions way back in the year 2000. Um, Marie Coyle, uh I don't think she'll mind me saying, was mature in age. And even when Mary was in her 80s, uh she was still doing training, and she was so enthused by what credit unions uh were and could be. And I think that that enthusiasm certainly rubbed off on me. And I would like to, I would like to be part of the the adults in the room now that that that pass on that enthusiasm to a younger generation for them to take that same baton and say, we could own this, this could belong to us, and if we shape this local credit union in this way, here is the impact that it could have on our community, whether that's a community of students, whether that's a community of postmen, whether that's a community of bus drivers, whether that's a community of people with a similar sport, but it's about that civic responsibility, it's about that civic engagement, it's about people helping people to do the best version of what they are part of.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Sounds good. We're we're with you on that. And I think we're going to be joined by your HQ. Hi. Hello.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Hi, folks.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

So you guys have some questions from our team for Dermit, is that right? Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

We have five questions. Um if you want to pick a number, one, two, five.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Uh let's go, middle of the road, number three.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Number three. So what is your what has been your biggest career highlight so far?

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Uh getting this role. Um I was approached to take to apply for this role in January 2010. And I uh presented a plan in March uh 2010, and I said this is what I would do if I got this role, and I think that what I presented didn't answer any of the questions that I was asked at the interview, but I had a really clear idea of what I thought was going to work, and when I was offered a job in April 2010, it was the start of something that 15 years later I feel as enthusiastic about it today as I did in April 2010. So that's absolutely been my career highlight getting the job and staying as happy as I am in the job.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Well, the answer, thank you. So we'll do another one if you want to pick another number.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

So let's pick the underdog, let's pick number five rather than number one.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

So if you had one wish for the credit union sector, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

I wish that we didn't have banks and billing societies on the high street in 1970 in Scotland, because having banks and billing societies already prevalent in Scotland in 1970 meant that when credit unions came to Scotland, there was no natural high street type space for credit unions to grow up in. And instead, credit unions grew up in areas of financial deprivation in Scotland, which was massively impactful for the people that lived in those areas, but unfortunately has resulted in this unfortunate notion that credit unions are a poor man's bank, and we've really we've really struggled to shake off that notion. So I'm kind of obviously being flippant. We can go back in time, can you go back to 1970 and remove the banks? But it's dead frustrating for me that credit unions are like credit unions are great for the poor people, and you're like, no, credit unions are great for everybody. Whether you're financially whether you're financially squeezed, whether you're financially struggling, or whether you're financially cushioned, credit unions can be and are in other parts of the world for all parts of society. So my hope for credit unions is that we can shake off this notion that that we are that we are best for people that don't have access to financial services, but instead we're we should be there for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Brilliant. Do you want to pick another number?

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Let's go to the top of the pile. Number one.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Number one. If credit unions had a mascot, what would the Scottish League's mascot be?

SPEAKER_03 43:54

As a football fan, I can tell you what it wouldn't be, and it wouldn't it wouldn't look like the mascot. got from Partick Thistle and Partik Thistle Pascott. Pascal, I don't I don't know is the answer. I've it's nothing I've never really thought about. But what I would like to see credit unions representing is is having a youthful face. I would like credit unions to be represented by a generation that currently is arguably underrepresented in the credit union sector. So we've just had a great conference um where of the hundred or so delegates there was about a 50-50 split between volunteers and employees in terms of the attendees at the conference. If I was to rewind 10 years that would have been more circa 90% volunteers 10% employees so it was balanced out over the years. At our last conference about 15% of the delegates were under the age of 30. I would like to see that metric balancing out a wee bit more. I would like to see not less older people I'd like to see the same amount of older people but I would like to see more younger people because that is where the new energy comes from that is where the innovation comes from that is where the motivation and the excitement and it's about blending those energies together. It's about recognizing and respecting the work that's been done by the people who have rolled up their sleeves and have grafted for the last 10, 20, 30 years. But it's also about that generation and they are recognizing that for some of them their tenures are coming to an end and it's about their own individual legacies but also what does that what does the baton look like that's been handed over is the baton in as good shape as it was when they were handed it and hopefully it's in better shape and what do we need to do as a sector to get a younger generation involved to to not oust but to complement the people who all who are already here that that would be my hope.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Thank you Dermot thank you guys amazing question. Stay with us though Dermot can I just say a huge thank you to you for joining us on Money Made Human today. Thank you for illustrating what a great human looks like and sounds like um and we really wish you well and all of your member credit unions well for the new financial year ahead. Thanks for listening to the Money Made Human podcast. We're grateful to spend time with you and hope you enjoyed it. If you want to join a credit union choose us with love until the next time first class credit union