Andy Walker – Former Professional Footballer & Football Commentator, Pundit and Media Analyst (#18)

In episode 18 of the Money Made Human podcast, we’re joined by Andy Walker, former professional footballer, football commentator, pundit, and media analyst.

Before moving into media, Andy enjoyed a successful professional football career spanning over 16 years. He began with Motherwell before moving to Celtic, where he became a key part of the squad and experienced some of the most memorable years of his playing career. Also a Scotland Internationalist, he later played for clubs including Bolton Wanderers, Sheffield United, Hibernian and Ayr United, earning recognition for his goal-scoring ability and consistency throughout his career.

In this episode, host Gayle Lloyd speaks with Andy about his journey into professional football, his experiences on and off the pitch, and the role his family played throughout his career. He also reflects on life after football and his transition into media.

The conversation explores the realities of football and finances, including the importance of saving and planning for the future, alongside Andy’s perspective on how the game has evolved in the age of social media and increased public scrutiny.

Key topics in this episode include:

• Andy’s journey into professional football
• Reflections on his 16-year playing career, including his time at Celtic
• The positive influence of family and experiences of loss and bereavement
• Life after playing and his transition into media and commentary
• The importance of financial awareness and planning in football
• Perspectives on the modern game and the impact of social media

Join us for an honest and reflective conversation about football, life beyond the game, and the lessons learned along the way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Welcome to Money Made Human, a podcast by First Class Credit Union. We are delighted today to be joined by Celtic legend Andy Walker. Andy, thank you so much for joining us. Pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Thank you very much for inviting me.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

So many questions for you.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Okay, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

I'm going to start with Celtic because that was obviously a huge part of your career and your life. Is it the case that once you play for a club like that, you're recognised forever for doing that? Does it leave you?

SPEAKER_03 1:11

No, I think you are. I mean, even to this day, um, I mean, I get in your lift, and the guy was talking to me about Celtic, and your lift man's a great Rangers fan, so apparently they're going to win the league this year. Okay. So you immediately get into that. But I would say pretty much everywhere I go, if you're going to put a tag on me with my 16-year career as a footballer, you're a former Celtic player, and I played football for 16 years. I had a really lovely time at Motherwell. I thoroughly enjoyed playing down in England with Bolton, with Sheffield United. You sort of think about different family experiences at those times. But yeah, I think that's that's just the way of it. I'm a I'm a former Celtic player and very proud to be one.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I want to explore a bit more about that later on, but I'd also like to talk to you about how you got into football and your family. And at the end of the podcast, Andy, we've asked our team to come up with random questions for you. So we've got a little selection of those to do as well. So, in terms of breaking into football, yeah, how did you do that? Because it's not it's not as easy as it would look.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Yeah, it's not easy, you're right. And I found it difficult, I found it challenging. I went to Trinity and Campus Lang.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

So you're the local boy here?

SPEAKER_03 2:40

I I'm a local boy. I was uh raised in Burnside, so I know the rather gone really well. But I went to Trinity, I went to St. Aloyish's, but I I wasn't showing any aptitude for unlike some of my brothers who were uh a bit more um uh studious than I was. But anyway, I went to Trinity, I played with the school team, and I found that schools football was very competitive. And all of my friends, all of my well, so many of my school chums, they were all they were all playing with clubs, they were training with clubs down south, they were tied to clubs, you know, Celtic, Dundee United, Aberdeen, um Clyde, Patrick Thistle, Queen's Park, and I I couldn't get into the school team. I couldn't get into the school team because we were a really good side and it was difficult. And uh I just I kept plugging away, got into the school team. The next year I was in I was playing for Glasgow schools, I got asked to play for Scotland schools, but still I wasn't getting a chance with a senior club, and then I got an opportunity to go and train with Partick Thistle's youth team, which was great, um, but still they didn't take me on, and eventually I played junior football, and that was a step up from the amateur uh side of things. I played with Bayliston for one year, and I think the break that I got, I think the luck that I had was we were a decent team, Bayliston. We got to the junior cup final, it was live on the television, and we got beat 2-0, but I played well enough for the Motherwell manager Tommy McLean to give me an opportunity to go and play for Mudderwell for six months. Brilliant. And if I was that was full time, and if I was able to make it, he would he would give me a two and a half year deal. And um, I was at Motherwell for three years before going to Celtic.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

So was that a game changer for you that Tommy McLean saw something in you?

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Yeah, he did, and it's really interesting. You see that, Gail, because I played as a winger, I played as a midfield player all my days at school and at amateur football. And he signed me on the strength of that, and he very quickly pulled me into his office. I'm talking about maybe I'd been there a couple of months. He said, I don't think you're gonna I don't think you're a winger, I don't think you're a midfield player, I don't think you're gonna make it there. And I was I thought this was a chat he's telling me to go, you're not good enough. And he said, Um, but you've got a really good touch and you can control the ball with both feet. I'm gonna play you as my back to go striker. Wow, and uh I didn't know what he was talking about. And I would go so far as to say I wouldn't have had a career without Tommy McLean. He saw things in me that I didn't realise I had, and I didn't know how to play for a team. I was just one of those give us a ball, I'll do something. But he taught me how to be part of a team, how important it was to have a structure, um, how to appreciate your teammates and what what their job was, and sometimes you had to fill in for them. Um, so I was learning all the time, and I felt as though I was at a good school because Gary McAllister was uh in that group, uh Tom Boyd, Fraser Wisher, who you know, uh Chris McCart. Um, there was a lot of young lads there that were just dead keen actually dead keen to to go on and you know just make a career out of football. And I remember my ambition being I hope I can be good enough to play full-time football for I mean I was 19 at the time, so I'm like, if I could get to 35, that'd be great. And uh I had an ambition of being able to get a I don't know, a flat and shamans and um so all those daft things as you were starting out, your your little goals that you had. And of course I wanted to keep my place in the Muddle team, and um I couldn't quite believe after three years that Celtic came in for me, and that was uh I mean they were my team. I'm one of eleven. My dad, I've got six brothers, four sisters. My dad took me to a lot of Celtic games.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

So was that your boyhood team? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

I went to Parkhead with my dad, I went with uh different brothers at different times. Um great days, happy days, um, you know, great, great occasions just to be just to be with family and talking about the game before you even got there, being at the game, just living through that, talking about it afterwards, and yeah, we were a close, we were a close family.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

I want to explore that a bit more, but just on on getting to Celtic, was that always a dream for you growing up when you were at Bayliston or then on to Motherwell? Did you have something in the back of your head saying that's where I want to get to?

SPEAKER_03 8:13

That was my dream to play for Celtic here. And I'm so glad that when I look back now, I mean I signed for Celtic in 87, I signed a four-year contract. The first year was great. We won the league, we won the cup, and I'm like, this is I'm gonna do this. Um that was all that I won uh in that time. But it was great. I I finished up with top scorer in my first season. We won a double. Uh some of the some of my teammates were I mean, previously they were they were probably I would regard them as some of my heroes. You know, because I used to go and watch Roy Aitken, Tommy Burns, Pat Bonner, uh Paul McStay. Paul McStay was my age, but he was good enough to be playing for Celtic at 17 when I think I was still playing schools football. So to play alongside guys like that was um it was a big thrill, but it was also a big challenge because I didn't want to let them down. I didn't want them to think I wasn't up too much, so I felt as though I had to raise my game every day at training just to compete with these players, and um yeah I did. We I I was part of a league-winning team, which um is still remembered fondly to this day because it was uh the club's centenary year, Billy McNeil was our manager, and um it was at a time when Celtic players were very engaged with the fans. We would go to a lot of supporters' functions, and I'm not sure it's the same today.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

It was kind of iconic times of football almost in a way.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

I don't know if I'm just thinking nostalgic, but the I don't just mean for Celtic, I mean the whole thing that was kind of well when when um being at Motherwell, being at Celtic, you're up against an Aberdeen team, it's the best in their history. The Dundee United team, it's the best in their history. Celtic Rangers were really strong, Hartson Hibbs, other teams that were strong at that time, you know, like Siddham Fermland. Uh the level of competition was was really strong, was really high, and Scottish clubs were doing well in Europe. Um, especially Aberdeen won in the Cup Winners Cup, Dundee United getting to the final, the UEFA Cup, um Dundee United winning the league. I mean, can you imagine? So it was a very um a very competitive time, and actually all those teams that I've mentioned they were full of Scots. Today's football is uh is global. You've got um you get players playing for clubs now from pretty much every across the every corner of the the world. And very difficult for maybe a young Andy Walker now trying to get a game for for Motherwell and and move to Celtic. Um it would be a it would be a different story these days.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

I want to just go back to a couple of things you've said. First of all, to your family, what was that like growing up in a in a big family? What you know what what was it like in terms of your everyday living? And did you do you look back on it and go, We had a great life?

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Oh yeah, we look back on it with great fondness. I shared a bedroom with three of my brothers, uh, two in bunk beds, two in singles. Um I would come home from school and I'd go into the kitchen, and sometimes my mum would say, No, it's not your turn for dinner, because she would do about two or three sittings. Um you just shared everything, you just got on with it. You just got on with it. I mean, I can remember my I've got three big brothers, three small brother, uh three wee brothers. I can remember wearing their clothes after a while because you just that the hand-may-downs was was just a thing. But it was a very warm and happy and loving time. I mean, we went on holiday every year to Weymouth. Uh my dad had a big car and we would all pile in and we would drive about eight hours to get to Dorset. There was some family in Weymouth, and uh you look back on that with great fondness. Just what did you do in Weymouth? You went to the park, you went to the beach, played football, you played football, played tennis as well. That was a big thing in our family. My dad was a a great tennis player, and we played tennis with him, um, and just with um just with your family doing doing things, it was great. What did your parents do? My dad was a chartered accountant, and my mum was a mum, she was a stay-home mum and look looked after all of us, and um yeah. Whenever I think of mum now, I think of the sadness at the end of her life when she had dementia and all of us trying to do our best for mum, and she had it maybe for four or five years. In fact, she was just along the road in David Walker Gardens, is it Walker Gardens, Walker House, Walker Gardens, I think. Um and funny enough, Carol's mum, my wife, uh her mum was in David Walker Gardens as well. So we actually took Carol's mum into her house for about 14 months when she had dementia. Cared for her, uh we cared for her until it was until it was too much. It was uh it was too much. I had to give Carol a a rest and we had to make a decision to put her into a home, which is always really tough.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

No, I can imagine. What about your dad? Is your dad still around or no?

SPEAKER_03 14:10

My dad died far too young. He died at 64. My dad was a chartered accountant, he was on the verge of retirement, and he loved his tennis, and I think his plan was to watch a bit of the tennis circuit with my mum. Um but he had um prostate uh cancer and 64. He kept it to himself for about a year, and it was funny. I I think I remember thinking there's something not quite right with that, and that was only me in a phone call to him because I was I was uh playing for Bolton at the time, so we were living in Bolton. And when he spoke to Dad in the phone, his voice just wasn't the same, and then um eventually he told us he had uh cancer, and yeah, you don't forget the date. He he died uh 4th of October 94, and he was only 64. I'm 60. Um I still feel as though I've got a a lot of life, a lot of energy left. I've got four children, they're all grown up, they've all got interesting lives, you want to be a part of it. And uh and dad would have loved all that because we uh at one stage he must have had about 40 grandchildren. We've all we've all grown up and got our own families, and there's there's a lot of um there's a lot of cousins around.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

I hope you don't mind me asking Andy. We do a lot of work around supporting the bereaved and helping our members that might be bereaved. How did you how did you cope with losing I guess losing your dad so young, but also that point where you lose both of your parents? It's quite a big thing to deal with. Yeah. How did you cope with that?

SPEAKER_03 16:02

It was really difficult because uh without getting into any detail, I think there was a split in the family as to what was the best thing to do for mum. Sure. Dad died suddenly, and that's horrible, that's dreadful, but we all supported each other. Uh my mum found it really difficult. Eventually, she had to have some some care, some time on her own. Um and I think having 11 children, and we're all grown up, all of us as individuals wanted to help her mum, but I think maybe looking back, we she was over uh she was overwhelmed. There were too many people seeing her every day and uh she just needed some time on her own. Um but uh we all did the best we could, and then when mum got dementia, that was um that was tough because she was forgetting things. Um some of the girls probably closer to Mum than the boys were, um and it was just difficult eventually realizing that uh we it's not safe for Mum to be in the house on her own and eventually she had to go into home, and and that's where she she had dementia for about five years, and I don't know, I still remember that day when we all knew that she was going to take her last breath, and that that room was full of all of her children, and there must have been about at the time maybe about 35 grandchildren, and we were all in that room. So there's something quite uh quite lovely about that. My mum was 85, well, a week before her 85th birthday, and actually yesterday was 10 years to the day since my mum died. And I got a nice text from my daughter because obviously she she remembered that, and we we uh we shared a couple of stories about her mum.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

I guess when they say that someone's passed surrounded by love, you've just been able to conjure that picture up for me. Yeah. You know, that she was surrounded by our children and grandchildren.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Yeah, I mean there's a huge sadness, of course, and uh a good few tears, but there's there's a bit of there's a bit of warmth there, there's a bit of love about having a room that's full of people who loved uh this this individual who was by god she was a mum to a living. I know can't imagine, and then all of the offspring of that and the love she had for all those younger ones, and some of them were um maybe in their twenties, uh maybe even older than that. So um, yeah, you can look back, and I've got to say I I still take a bit of strength if things are tough in my life. I think about my dad, I think about how he might have handled certain situations, and I take a bit of strength from that. Um I go to mass every week, I still pray for my mum and dad, the rest of the family. Um, and I get a bit of strength from that too, because um life can be tough for for and that faith helps you. The faith helps me, yeah. Um I text everyone yesterday, what are you doing for Lent? You don't do any Lent, but it was just to get a laugh. I mean your son that immediately gets back to you and he says, I'm af it and then he then he immediately follows that up with well, maybe for a few days. Just um just good fun.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Your mum sounds like someone that just had the capacity to keep loving more and more people, but concentrating on you, how how did they support you in your journey with football? And I guess they were real I I know they will have been proud of everyone, yeah. But I guess they would have been proud of you for fulfilling that childhood dream of playing for Celtic, were they?

SPEAKER_03 20:20

Yeah, I think it was a bit special, and even me going to Motherwell, I got the use of my mum's car for a wee bit, just things like that that you maybe maybe I took for granted at the time. I need to get to Motherwell, so I'm using my mum's car. That's and eventually you get your your own car, but um taking you training, um just doing all those things. I can remember playing for Motherwell and playing Celtic in a semi-final at Hamden. And I was a sub. I came on and then I was taken off after about two minutes because of an injury. And I remember looking up and seeing my mum and dad in the devastated in the uh in the stand and there's no idea what had what had happened, but all part of uh football. But uh I loved talking to my dad about football because um about all football or your football? All football and then eventually my football. And and then I remember thinking dad's talking rubbish, but I'll let him speak. Um everyone's got an opinion on football. Of course, and it is a bit of a I don't know, a bit of a skill, a bit of a trick to to know what to take on board and to dismiss other things. So um yeah, I was uh I was all ears about learning how to be a a full time footballer, a guy that trains every day, being professional. I wasn't a drinker, um but then you have to. I was quite small. I mean, I'm not the biggest guy. But I had to become stronger, I had to go to the gym and things like that where you give yourself the best possible chance of competing because it was um the level of competition was was pretty high.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Can I ask you when you called your parents to say Celtic have asked me to sign for them, what was that reaction?

SPEAKER_03 22:24

It was entirely the other way around. It was my dad coming to me and saying Celtic are coming in for you in the summer because a Celtic board member had been doing some business with my dad, and uh unbeknown to me, uh I was on their list of players, and so uh your son will come to us in the summer, won't he? And um my dad didn't tell me until we get knocked out of the Scottish Cup. I was at Motherwell, uh Dunde United beat us in the quarterfinals of the cup, and it was around late March, and my dad I remember him coming over to where I was living, and he said, Um, Celtic are going to come in for you at the and we spoke about it, and then the manager got the sack. The Celtic manager was Davy Hay, he got the sack, and I thought this is going to fall through. But Billy McNeil had taken over, and uh Billy was a family friend, my dad was his accountant, okay. And not that that makes any difference to the he's not going to sign any pals, no, or sons of pals. Uh you only sign for Celtic on your ability. Uh-huh. Um, so Billy came in and and uh just took up the scouting reports and whatever it was, and um yeah, the uh so my dad my dad knew before me that I was going to be able to do.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

What was your reaction? Did you believe them?

SPEAKER_03 24:05

I couldn't quite believe it, and I didn't tell anyone, and uh I was training every day at Mother Wall, and I didn't tell my brothers. Uh I felt as though I had this huge secret.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

And I wouldn't have admitted it at the time, but it was in my mind all day, every day.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

What was it? Um until the deal was done, or just yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Got to the end of the season, I'm thinking, right, what's happening? And then, of course, the Celtic manager gets sacked at a bit of time before someone else comes in. And then this motherwell manager Torney McLean asking me to come into the club because something was happening, and then he told me that another club were interested, it wasn't Celtic, so it was a lot of confusion, and um I'm so grateful for my dad guiding me through that time because I wouldn't have spoken to any other club, but he was insisting that I should because it was good knowledge to have what are they offering? Let's use that when we're talking to another uh club. I I wouldn't have had that maturity, so um, and I think without my dad being there, I I don't think I would have been a Celtic player because the manager told me other clubs were interested and you should go. And there were good clubs, Dundee United, uh, for one. But thankfully my dad gave me the best advice and it and it worked out well. I went to the club that uh I'd always dreamed of playing for.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

And it happened for you, it happened, it was great. Before you get to Celtic, you spoke about Tommy McLean at Motherwell, and it's a kind of a similar story. We spoke to Fraser Wishart, who I know you're you're good friends with, yeah, and he said something similar that he had been discovered quite late on. He didn't think he was gonna make it, he was 19, but Motherwell gave him a chance, yeah, and his career developed from there. Was it was it like that for you? Did you think, Am I getting too old to make it, or did you always have a belief this is going to happen for me?

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Well, I always had a belief, but when you get to 19, uh you are quite a late developer, and I'm playing junior football at 19. I mean, our guy's playing for Celtic at 19, and I was nowhere near good enough.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Mind you, the junior culture was massive then, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Very much so. Um Fraser played with Pollock and uh in fact if Fraser's listening to this, we pumped Pollock in the finals of the We pumped Pollock and got to that junior cup final when I get a chance to sign for Motherwell. So um yeah, it was I I always did hold that belief that would make it, but when you're a late developer, you wonder if it's ever going to happen. And um I'm just so grateful it was Motherwell because Tommy McLean I think he might divide opinion with some players. I know that he does, but I'm I'm very um I'm very grateful to him for what he taught me.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Does he remain someone in your affection now? You know, do you look back affection might not be the right word, but do you look back and think gratitude that I'm very grateful to him.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Do you know what I wish he'd given me, I wish he'd give me a wee bit more praise.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

He was always critical, and he was always right. But I wish he told me sometimes, and he played well today, and very rarely told me I played well. But maybe that's a good thing, because I never So did you keep striving to play well? Yeah, yeah, I did, and I listened to him because I I remember driving home. I I used to take Fraser to train every day. We would drive home about Tom McLean to say this, seen that, and then we'd sit back and after a few minutes and we'd look at each other and say, He's right, you know he's right, don't you? Because you'd be beginning through it in your mind, yes, he's right, and it was so annoying, but it was very helpful.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And his brother Jim McLean was would have been at Dundee United at the time, so they were kind of formidable characters, weren't they?

SPEAKER_03 28:36

They were Jim McLean is astonishing to take Dundee United to a league title and you know winning trophies, doing so well in Europe, beating Barcelona home and away, can you imagine? Um an astonishing period in Scottish football where he and Alex Ferguson at Aberdeen were the best uh around. And uh I I often wonder what would Jim McLean have done had he been given the opportunity to go and manage, you know, Man United or Liverpool. Um but no, uh uh in Motherwell I was just striving to to be the best that I could and uh eventually got the move that I wanted.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

And what about in terms of getting to Celtic? You thought this is my boyhood club, yeah, this is gonna be an amazing career. You know, was it everything you'd hoped for? Was it everything you dreamed about?

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Initially it was. It was everything I hoped for and more because I played in a winning team and um I played with some players that I had so much admiration for.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Who was your favourite Celtic player of the time? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Who was my age, couldn't you believe how good he was? Um Pat Bonner, even Peter Grant, who's my age, and he'd played I don't know, he must have played about a hundred odd games before I'd got to um Celtic. So um it was just a great time, but eventually it becomes really tough if you're not winning. And I played in a really good Celtic team and we won the league. I played in a poor Celtic team where we finished fourth or fifth. Um that's a lot of criticism you're getting. Um but there's still something about I don't know, I love to just represent Celtic every day and every day, um, not just every game. And um yeah, I'd love to have been one of those players that uh won back-to-back trebles or quadruple trebles, but um uh my time was highs and lows, and um but the things you've won no one can ever take away from you? No, not at all. I was part of a a really good side and uh great memories. I still get people coming up to me today and thanking me for the part I played in that team because they still remember it. They remember there may be an old it's maybe an older guy who was there, he's uh young boy at the game, and uh just it serves as great memories. Those those father-son, father-daughter moments where you go to the football together. I I remember it because I went with my dad and um you just remember it with great affection, especially if your team's winning.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

It's a weird dynamic though, when you think about you're paid to do that for a living, but in any one game, you could have 50,000 fans praising you or being critical of you while you're doing your job. Yes. How do you cope with that? Do you take that home?

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Uh yeah, yeah, sometimes you do, and um I do think you have to be strong. I mentioned earlier about everyone having an opinion, and it's important you listen to people that you respect. Um and I I would even get home and my brothers would have an opinion, um, and my dad would have an opinion. My dad was always supportive. Um but yes, I've been I've been involved in a you know a warm-up for a game, and there's I don't know, there's 50,000 in the stadium and they're booing you, and they're your own supporters because they don't want you to play.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

So um Andy, does that get in? Can you can does that get into your head? Can you hear that or are you to block out?

SPEAKER_03 32:50

You hear it, and what do you do? Because the manager's picked me. So I don't want to let the manager down, I don't want to let my teammates down. Who are you playing for? You're playing for yourself, you're playing for your teammates, and then I think you're playing for the club. So I I I had a loyalty to my manager. Um my managers at Celtic were Billy McNeil, Tommy Burns. I had a manager, Liam Brady, who I had very little time for because he treated me badly. So I wasn't playing for him, I was just playing for myself.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

But um what what do you mean by badly? Do you mean exclusion or yeah?

SPEAKER_03 33:33

I was Liam came in and I was ready to go. I I'd been at Celtic for four years, and he came in and said, Andy, I'm not going to play you. I've got other people I'd rather be in front of you. No problem. I'm good to go, I'm ready to go. And cut a long story short, a couple of Scottish clubs come in for me, and I didn't want to go. I wanted to go down south. So um he called me into his office, and of course, they were offering money. Uh Falkirk and Motherwood are going to spend a bit of money and want to sign me. I didn't want to go, I wanted to go down south, and when I refused to go to these clubs, uh he threatened to stop my wages, which was outrageous. And um I spoke to the PFAA, Tory Higgins at the time was very helpful. My dad was very helpful. We had a meeting with uh Liam Brady, but it was stressful as well. My wife was pregnant at the time, and it's not what you want to hear. No, we we might not have any money at the end of this month because the manager's saying if I don't go here or here, then and we were geared up, we'd a young family, we were happy to go down south, and eventually we did, but um I lost any respect I had for Liam when he behaved that way.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

It's it's an odd dynamic too, when you could have a club kind of dictating where you should go next in terms of your own life.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Gail on say I could tell you some horrible stories of clubs when they had a lot of control over individuals, a lot of power. Um there's some real horror stories about certain individuals, uh and I think it's getting better, it it definitely is better. Um but I didn't want to be dictated to by someone who wasn't interested in what I wanted or what might have been best for me. Um he just he just wanted me out the way.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

We interviewed Michael Devlin, who's the chair of the PFA Scotland a few weeks ago. He said with football it's difficult sometimes because your career rests on one person's opinion of you.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

And that's that can be difficult to navigate because you might actually be doing well, or others may hate you, but but someone can kind of neglect to say that.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Is that tough to Yeah it is and s it at at that time, you know, maybe in the 80s, uh clubs could hold on to your registration, you couldn't go anywhere. And then of course you get the Bosman thing and players can move a bit more freely, thankfully. And you might get down the line even more changes in in um in football and the movement of players. You might get to a stage where they could I'm serving my notice like they do in every other walk of life. But of course you've got this transfer uh system where every individual has a value, and sometimes that's all you are to a club. You're just a commodity. How much are you worth? You're just this commodity to be to be bought and sold.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

So um we're we're business partners to PFA Scotland, and one of the things we care about is helping young footballers save and do that in a safe environment. Um, we've heard so many horror stories of football players being exposed to scams and schemes that just don't benefit them at all. And I wondered, you know, you were saying there, I thought that was quite moving when you were talking about you and your wife and you're you're navigating family life and worrying, will I have enough money? Am I going to get another deal? Has money, you know, I think there's a perception that footballers are super wealthy, yeah, driving Lamborghinis, it's not the case. Um, how do you think things are better now in terms of educating players?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Uh yes, whether the individuals themselves listen, I think you're right to highlight the fact that some still get involved in some daft schemes, um, some are easily swayed. I am so grateful to my dad, even today. I I signed for Mother One, I was earning 60 quid a week, and I felt rich. I I could afford that that thing that I mentioned earlier about potentially getting a flat in Shawn's on three times your wages, I could maybe get a flat in Shawlons, and I was earned 60 quid a week, and the next season I was on £70. And I thank I didn't want to do it at the time, but my dad insisted that I put 20 quid a week away in a pension. And I was 19. And Dad, I just wanted to go out, I want to buy nice things. I want to do this and do that. He said, No, no, just trust me, do this. And I'm so grateful that I mean where I got a pension payment, and I'm so grateful that dad did that for me. Not everyone's dad is a chartered accountant, not every player would listen to that advice. And then sometimes you could listen to there are some dodgy accountants in the world, so I get it that life is difficult, life is challenging, and I know players down south who are earning very good money. I'm talking about tens of thousands of pounds every week, and they've invested in schemes that have been proven to be useless, and they're getting chased for tax and extraordinary uh sums of money. So um, yeah, advice. I mean, the PFA uh give good advice, that's what I've known.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Um and you've had that that kind of legacy from your dad as well that's helped you.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Well, I just I consider myself to be to be lucky. Um my dad uh just had a there was there's a wisdom that I I wish I had uh from him even now, and I had so many things that happened in my life with family and other things, and I'd love to bounce it off my old man and see what he would say. I know he would give uh good advice, but at that time when he was insisting that I put this money away, and I didn't want to do it. I'm so glad that I did. Because in the end, not in the end, it's just as you move along your life. Um it was just uh it was a payment. It was I I didn't really pay much attention to it. It's not as though I was checking the pension fund every year. It it's when you get to 35 and football finishes. What do you do now? How do you earn money? How do you keep your your family um how do you keep your own sanity?

SPEAKER_02 41:00

It's how how did you deal with that? You know, after Celtic, you as you said, you went back to England and Yeah, I went to England for about six years.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

I came back up to Celtic for a while. Um but I finished at 35. I was glad to be finished at 35 because my body told me that I couldn't go on much longer. I I just had too many uh aches and pains. I thought I would be a coach or a manager because I'd made provision for that. I'd gone to all the coaching courses, I was a fully qualified SFA coach, but it wasn't I didn't have that fire in my belly that I had about being a footballer. I wanted to be a footballer, nothing else. I didn't want, I didn't have any great desire to be a manager or a coach. I just thought this makes sense, this is what I know. I still want to be involved in football. So when I asked, when I got asked to do a bit of radio, a bit of television, I got asked to write a column for the Sunday Herald. It was a new broadsheet newspaper at the time, and it was me that had to put together the 800,000 words, and I wasn't first choice for that. They asked Steve Archibald to do it, but he wanted to do it over the phone. They asked Jim Bett to do it, who played with Rangers in Aberdeen. Um he said he would do it, but he would do it over the phone, and because it was a broadsheet and it was a new paper, and then they asked me, but you need to do it yourself, and I thought, yeah, I like that. So I did that, and so writing a column, being on the radio, getting asked to be on the tele and do you remember teletext? Of course, I used to do a thing for teletext, so you got a little a little uh thing for that, and putting it all together, I'm thinking this could be if I keep this going, uh this could work. And then around 09, so I I retired in 2000, and in 09, Sky asked me to get involved in their coverage of Scottish football and English football, which I really enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Um is it easier to give opinion than it is to play or not?

SPEAKER_03 43:22

Um, excuse me, it's very difficult to give an opinion that's unfavourable about someone that you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

And you have to go over that. Well, I I think you have to go over it because I listen to a lot of opinions now, and a lot of people are just you know, they're cheerleaders for for their own club. And uh that's fine. If if you want to listen to a cheerleader, that's fine. It wasn't my bag and uh I got into a bit of trouble with Celtic people at Celtic who called me up and uh let's just say gave me a roof or For not being a cheerleader. I wasn't interested in being a cheerleader. I was I think I've got enough knowledge about the game just to look at a game, take away the colour of the strip, and you're playing well, he's playing badly, how do you win this? How do you get back into the game? Just all those questions you ask yourself. Um, how can you change the course of this game? How can you maintain this lead because you've lost um you know a player or whatever? Um so yeah, I I still enjoy it to this day and hopefully do it for a bit longer.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

And you travel around doing that, don't you?

SPEAKER_03 44:41

I do. Uh I'm going down to Harrigate this weekend, that is League 2 in England. Um, but even that has its pleasures. My son lives in Manchester, I'll go and see him over the weekend. But I was down in Barrow during the week. Um my god, it was Baltic. But I'm down in Newcastle in a couple of weeks doing a Premier League game, and always great to do games at that level.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Um and do you enjoy it, Andy, in terms of just staying with the football journey? Is that a big thing from it?

SPEAKER_03 45:14

Uh well, it's just what I know, I'm comfortable, and I know I totally get it that there's a there's a pressure in life. Sport. I I need to call things immediately. Um you have to have I think you have to have good language, I think you have to have uh an understanding of your role, the role of your commentator, um, and then the role of the person inside your ear who's maybe dictating what picture you'll see on the screen because there's so many cameras at a game. Um so there's a lot of uh things to uh to be aware of, um but I really enjoy it. I really enjoy it, and I love being part of football, and I love going to clubs, and you don't get this way, all clubs believe me, but I love going to clubs. I was at Barrow the other day, lovely people, warm, it was freezing. Please come in on the coast, have a coffee, come in too, sit down. Can I get you? Do you want some to eat? Um there are some clubs you go to, and oh my god, they they uh they look down their nose at you and not too much of that, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Uh oh. Andy, I you know, I've really enjoyed speaking to you, and I've loved learning about your parents, especially and what they've given to you.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

We're all very kind. We still uh talk about them all the time, so uh that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

What was their names?

SPEAKER_03 46:52

My dad was Frank, I've got a brother Frank, uh and my mum was Norma, and I've got a sister, Norma, and I'm very close to both of them. They're twins, Frank and Norma. So um my mum had two sets of twins and uh 11 children. I mean, we thought it was hard having four. Yeah, four and six years, and I look at my son now, who's got a two and a half year old, uh ten month old, and he's due again in July. So they're gonna have a reliving that story, so uh we've been in that movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

So before we finish, Andy, I've got some questions from our team.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Now I haven't seen them, so let's see what what the team have to say. Okay. Okay, well, this is a big football one for you, first of all. If you could do a VAR review of one moment from your playing career, not to change it, but to prove you were right, what would it be and why?

SPEAKER_03 48:00

A VAR. VAR is an interesting concept that we talk about now. It was meant to make things easier, but it's actually making things more difficult. Um I remember playing at Ibrook's and honestly it was a penalty. Maybe I had a reputation of going down too easily and I didn't get it.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

And would the Rangers fans say that?

SPEAKER_03 48:30

If they see the VAR and it was in at the Celtic end, so it'd have been and I was on penalties. Okay. So I would have taken it. Okay. Um but yes, you do think of some moments that you wish you had done things differently, but I mean that's that's just natural. But um no, I'm not sure there's a huge one, just that that one sticks in my mind because it's um I mean a Celtic Rangers game, the game that you you grew up where there was so much tension. Um does that stay with you forever? Oh, it's that's a magnificent fixture, and it's a great pity that both clubs seem to want to you know play down. I know there's a very ugly side to it with some offensive singing, uh, but that is the best fixture I played in. I'm talking about the tension, the atmosphere, the absolute joy of winning one of those games, scoring in one of those games, and uh the horrible feeling when you lose.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

But still, globally, it's still a thing, it's still a major sporting thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 49:41

We could make it better if we put in more away supporters, but hey, that's just me. And I'm telling you, if you if you left it up to former players, you would have a sizable away support every time because it it helps the atmosphere, it helps the atmosphere and it helps them play. You you like you like uh an edge, all those those 10,000 there don't like me. That's fine. You can thrive off that. Here's what I can do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Okay, this is a great question. I love this one. If you could give your younger self some advice, knowing what you know now, what would you say?

SPEAKER_03 50:17

I'd be putting more into that pitch.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

What into the pen?

SPEAKER_03 50:21

Um I've made some I've made some daft decisions uh in my life. Um no, I can't share two personal. Okay. Fine.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Would you advise young footballers to save with a credit union as an example and to be more careful with money? And should they have financial safeguarding in place?

SPEAKER_03 50:51

It's something my wife and I talk about with um you know, you obviously your children go to school. Honestly, you're I think we're missing a trick at school. I think you should learn how to spend money, save money, use money. We agree. Debt is not a bad thing, debt can be a good thing, debt can help you. Um regular payments can you you should be taught this at school. Agreed, and I think we're missing a real trick there because we've got boys and girls who've got so much drive and ambition and energy. And why why are they learning about things when they're away from school about how to deal with money? Credit cards, your credit history, your credit score, the good and the bad of it, the effect that it can have on you, your whole family.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

Um it's really important.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

It's really important, and um money makes the world go round, of course it does, but having more knowledge, more understanding of uh what money can do for you and how to use it, um I think it's it's kind of essential.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

It's essential. What is the biggest change you've noticed in Scottish football and how young players deal with their success and achieving success early on? Do you think there has been a change?

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Yeah, well I I I'm I don't know how you handle social media now. I fear I mean I'm looking at my grandchildren.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Social media uh do you do social media, Andy?

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Oh, you won't find any social media footprint for me. Um I'm not I don't have I've never had any Facebook, Twitter. I mean, I I'm aware of what goes on and I can get the the news at the press of a button on my phone like everyone else, but I don't take pictures, I don't comment on anything, and I think it is interesting how footballers uh will go in after a game and once they've spoken to their teammates and their manager, the first thing they do is they put on their phone.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

I don't know why you do that and absorb all of that creative pension potential.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

And I'm sure you might write, sir, oh Andy, you played really well today, but there's a million other people, yeah, and they shout and swear and abuse you, and you're looking at it on your phone. I think as a footballer, you get enough criticism where it well, I played for Celtics, so you got a lot of criticism wherever you go, you got a lot of adulation. Um but I can't imagine what it's like to look at your phone every day and see and read all this criticism. I mean, I I went through a phase where I was getting criticized a lot just because you're on tele, you're a former player, you're talking rubbish, um, your opinion is worthless. I don't want to. I don't care about uh the guy who thinks I've done a good job as much as I don't care about the guy who thinks I'm an absolute bandit. And social media, I'm sure it has its benefits, but I just see it as a I I really hope I can give good advice to my grandchildren. They'll obviously get it from their parents, but um just wow, some of the things, and of course, we're getting into this period of AI now where aren't we all lose our jobs? I mean, for goodness sake, you'll have a robot doing the type of job I did, and talking all the all the nonsense of the day instead of me.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

We we're kind of going against the trend because we're suggesting money should be made human, you know. We're we're we're all for humans here.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Two last questions then. One is how do you adjust to being that Celtic star on the field to being Andy Walker? Now I appreciate there's TV and radio and so on, but how do you adjust to being do you ever adjust to that?

SPEAKER_03 55:27

I think I've always had a good grounding. Um, Gail. My my love has come from my siblings, 10 of them, my mum and dad. Uh I'm very lucky. I've got the love of a good woman. I've got four children, I have a great relationship with them. Um I'm now a grandparent, which is a wonderful experience. Uh that's all I need, and I've got good friends. Um I don't really get involved in that social media aspect where there's just too much hate or ego and ego and all the rest of it. So, yes, I'm I'm lucky to be an ex-Celtic player. Um sometimes you get a bit of stick. You know, I I could I was in Glasgow City Centre the other day and I get called a name. I got called a name and I thought, wow, God, I haven't heard that for a couple of hours. No, I haven't heard that for a while, but it's part of the deal. I I I think the I think I meet more people that are want to shake your hand rather than shake your neck. Um but it's life in Glasgow. You need to uh you need to have a thick skin. And um yeah, I'm I'm I'm really quite relaxed. I've got a lot of love in my life and I concentrate on that. That is I love that's the best thing about um just having good strong relationships.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Love it. Final question Scotland are in the World Cup. Yeah, well obviously England, they're too with a national organisation both teams through to the next phase?

SPEAKER_03 57:16

Oh yeah. I think England could win it.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

I think they've got the players.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Is that is that who you would go for in the World Cup?

SPEAKER_03 57:25

England or Spain.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

I'm really hope surely to goodness we can get out of the group phase and get a knockout game which we've never had. Uh two of the games that Scotland are playing are in Boston. My future son-in-law is a Bostonian, so I'm putting them under pressure to to uh to get me a ticket.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

And I know we never mentioned it, but you you you have been capped for Scotland as well.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

Other highs for me. I mean, I I got three caps in my life, and uh I mean I only started one game for Scotland, but can you imagine that? I was the best available at that time. I get big to play for Scotland. I was in about half a dozen uh squads. Uh my goodness, when you think of who I was up against, Charlie Nicholas, Frank McAveny, Ali McCoyst, Alan McInally, Robert Fleck. Uh, I mean, wonderful, wonderful players.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

And friends, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

And yeah, friends and colleagues. I've worked with Ali a few times. Uh I bump into a lot of people, and that's I think that's a great thing about football. You bump into a lot of people that you haven't seen for so long, and you chat as though you were you're still you know teammates or or colleagues, and um I think there is a there's a level of respect that I had, and I know all my teammates had for when I was playing with Celtic, there was a level of respect you had for your if you're talking about Celtic Rangers. I mean Rangers were full of Scots, Rangers are full of good players. You you'd meet up with them in the international setup, and you you were aware they're really good players, and um yeah, you want to beat them badly when you're up against them one-on-one, but um I try not to get involved in any hatred, uh it's not healthy.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

So you think Scotland's gonna get through the next phase?

SPEAKER_03 59:32

I think Scotland will get through. I think England I've got a really good chance of winning it. They've got the players.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

And what where will you watch the games at home? Will you travel?

SPEAKER_03 59:42

I'm trying, I might go out. My daughter lives in New York, and it's only about three, four hours on the train to Boston, and we've been to Boston for a you know a couple of weekends. Um I'd like to watch some games out in New York even with Stephanie or or with Mike and just just go to a just go to a bar. Be be in the country that the World Cup is taking place in.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Sample the atmosphere.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

Um so yeah, I'm very much looking forward to it. I'm not working at it, but I'll I'll watch it something uh somewhere. Uh I'm sure Fraser's watching it in some bar in Spain. I might join them there.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:23

So that'd be a good thing. Well, we're all we're hoping the the home teams do well.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Yes, all good.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

It has been such a pleasure to speak to you, Andy. Thank you for asking me, Ann. I really mean that. I think uh it was great to hear about your your upbringing and your career, and uh you're really grateful to speak to you today. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Money Made Human podcast. We're grateful to spend time with you and hope you enjoyed it. If you want to join the credit union, choose us with love. Until the next time, first class credit union.